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tpeirce at digitalcon.ca
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 Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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Hi List,
There is sad news about a death yesterday because a VoIP provider failed
to connect a 9-1-1 call to the caller's local dispatch centre. I just
wanted to put a reminder out there that it isn't expensive to make sure
your Canadian VoIP service is complying with the current CRTC
requirements by allowing your customers to reach help when they need it
the most.
For more information on 9-1-1 termination, please see
http://www.digitalcon.ca/voip9-1-1/
The story circulating Canadian media can be found at
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/04/30/calgary-toddler.html
Best regards,
Trevor Peirce
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shmaltz at gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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You are sick to try to gain financially from this.
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Trevor Peirce <tpeirce@digitalcon.ca> wrote:
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tpeirce at digitalcon.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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C F wrote:
| Quote: | You are sick to try to gain financially from this.
|
Let's look at the problem with VoIP and 9-1-1 for a moment.
Residential VoIP service can be offered by anyone with very minimal
investment. Because of this, many VoIP providers have only a few
subscribers, sometimes so few that they can be counted on one hand.
Those VoIP providers obviously cannot afford to pay up to thousands of
dollars per month to integrate with the telco to provide proper 9-1-1
support. Instead, they create work-arounds, speed dials, etc to give
"pseudo 9-1-1" that doesn't really work properly. One day someone needs
to reach help and can't so we see an article in mainstream media about
the tragedy.
I think it's in everyone's best interest including such VoIP providers
and their subscribers to ensure calls can be routed properly. I felt
that this tragedy might highlight the potential impact of choosing not
to offer proper 9-1-1 support.
I can't see anything sick about sharing information about a service that
can help save lives and I'm sorry it offended you.
Best regards,
Trevor Peirce
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asterisk at wideideas.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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On May 1, 2008, at 8:38 PM, Trevor Peirce wrote:
| Quote: | C F wrote:
| Quote: | You are sick to try to gain financially from this.
|
Let's look at the problem with VoIP and 9-1-1 for a moment.
Residential VoIP service can be offered by anyone with very minimal
investment.
|
I maybe going out on a limb here, but looking over your services it
looks like you are proving that single quoted point. I'm all about
telling the mom and pop shops to make sure they have their e911
routing setup right, but if you don't, go out and get it from a
company that is established not dragging off a extended shirt tail of
Milwest Holdings out flogging the death of some kid to drum up business.
Sorry for speaking what everyone else has to be thinking.
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tpeirce at digitalcon.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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Miles Scruggs wrote:
| Quote: | I maybe going out on a limb here, but looking over your services it
looks like you are proving that single quoted point. I'm all about
telling the mom and pop shops to make sure they have their e911
routing setup right, but if you don't, go out and get it from a
company that is established not dragging off a extended shirt tail of
Milwest Holdings out flogging the death of some kid to drum up business.
Sorry for speaking what everyone else has to be thinking.
|
I never said that I represent a large company, and in fact I openly
admit that Digital Conceptions is a small business. As taken directly
from the web page I originally linked to:
| Quote: |
Your subscribers expect you to provide true 9-1-1 service. You're a
small company and can't afford the hundreds to thousands of dollars
charged by the major players in VoIP 9-1-1. That's how it was for us,
too, until recently...
We're proud to be able to provide *real* 9-1-1 service with a *real*
9-1-1 service provider for the small guy. We are able to do this
because we went ahead and contacted one of the big guys and explained
our situation. As a result, we're proud to be able to offer the VoIP
911 service your small business needs.
|
The whole idea is that several smaller companies with few end users work
together each covering a fraction of the cost it would be if we all had
our own accounts with a call centre. I certainly do not handle any 9-1-1
calls myself as I do not have the resources to do so.
Best regards,
Trevor Peirce
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aggibson at cogeco.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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Trevor Peirce wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | C F wrote:
| Quote: | You are sick to try to gain financially from this.
|
Let's look at the problem with VoIP and 9-1-1 for a moment.
Residential VoIP service can be offered by anyone with very minimal
investment. Because of this, many VoIP providers have only a few
subscribers, sometimes so few that they can be counted on one hand.
Those VoIP providers obviously cannot afford to pay up to thousands of
dollars per month to integrate with the telco to provide proper 9-1-1
support. Instead, they create work-arounds, speed dials, etc to give
"pseudo 9-1-1" that doesn't really work properly. One day someone needs
to reach help and can't so we see an article in mainstream media about
the tragedy.
I think it's in everyone's best interest including such VoIP providers
and their subscribers to ensure calls can be routed properly. I felt
that this tragedy might highlight the potential impact of choosing not
to offer proper 9-1-1 support.
I can't see anything sick about sharing information about a service that
can help save lives and I'm sorry it offended you.
Best regards,
Trevor Peirce
|
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Are you a lawyer, Mr. Peirce?
Do you catch many ambulances? |
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jra at baylink.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 08:38:49PM -0700, Trevor Peirce wrote:
| Quote: | I can't see anything sick about sharing information about a service that
can help save lives and I'm sorry it offended you.
|
You weren't sharing information about your service, per se.
You were using the actual death of an actual person as an advertising
point. Yeah, it's a bit tacky. We'll be sure to forward the message
and your home address to the family of the decedent.
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)
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beckman at angryox.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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On Fri, 2 May 2008, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 08:38:49PM -0700, Trevor Peirce wrote:
| Quote: | I can't see anything sick about sharing information about a service that
can help save lives and I'm sorry it offended you.
|
You weren't sharing information about your service, per se.
You were using the actual death of an actual person as an advertising
point. Yeah, it's a bit tacky. We'll be sure to forward the message
and your home address to the family of the decedent.
|
I really don't see what the problem is. It is horrible tragedy that
someone lost their life possibly due to their VoIP 911 service not routing
correctly. How is it so horrible that this tragedy is a good reminder to
us all that we need to know who are vendors are, what their systems are
capable of, and that we should remember to do something about it?
And what's the problem with Trevor letting people know that he is
concerned about people's safety and ability to reach 911, and is willing
to put his own name and company on the line to provide this service?
The tragedy highlighted a problem in this industry, and Trevor says he has
a good solution for it. If he truly does, then by evaluating and
potentially using Trevor and his company to fill a gap in your 911 service
saves a life, I don't see his post as inappropriate in the least.
I don't see Trevor chasing ambulances. (And pretty much everyone on this
list posts either for help or to offer their services to this community.)
I read the email, and he said here's a problem we should as a VoIP
community avoid, and I have experience in dealing with it, and here's what
I do and how it works and because I do it right it could save lives if you
use it. (Obviously, independently evaluate his claims yourself.)
Trevor, I don't have any problem with what you posted. I think you
presented it fairly, it IS a real problem in this industry with people
offering service without really knowing how it works or possibly doing it
right, and if you do indeed "do it right" then I hope people use your
service and can rid the news of this story every hitting the press again.
Beckman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy
beckman@angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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jantkowiak at netigent...
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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I have to agree with Peter here...I don't see anything all that wrong with
Trevor's message. Isn't this kind of how capitalism works? Bad things happen
and we figure out a way to make it better, and support ourselves in the
process... It's not like he's marketing a hurricane Katrina mixed drink, he's
marketing a service that (regardless of whether or not it actually works) is
intended to help prevent this from happening...
Peter Beckman wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 2 May 2008, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 08:38:49PM -0700, Trevor Peirce wrote:
| Quote: | I can't see anything sick about sharing information about a service that
can help save lives and I'm sorry it offended you.
|
You weren't sharing information about your service, per se.
You were using the actual death of an actual person as an advertising
point. Yeah, it's a bit tacky. We'll be sure to forward the message
and your home address to the family of the decedent.
|
I really don't see what the problem is. It is horrible tragedy that
someone lost their life possibly due to their VoIP 911 service not routing
correctly. How is it so horrible that this tragedy is a good reminder to
us all that we need to know who are vendors are, what their systems are
capable of, and that we should remember to do something about it?
And what's the problem with Trevor letting people know that he is
concerned about people's safety and ability to reach 911, and is willing
to put his own name and company on the line to provide this service?
The tragedy highlighted a problem in this industry, and Trevor says he has
a good solution for it. If he truly does, then by evaluating and
potentially using Trevor and his company to fill a gap in your 911 service
saves a life, I don't see his post as inappropriate in the least.
I don't see Trevor chasing ambulances. (And pretty much everyone on this
list posts either for help or to offer their services to this community.)
I read the email, and he said here's a problem we should as a VoIP
community avoid, and I have experience in dealing with it, and here's what
I do and how it works and because I do it right it could save lives if you
use it. (Obviously, independently evaluate his claims yourself.)
Trevor, I don't have any problem with what you posted. I think you
presented it fairly, it IS a real problem in this industry with people
offering service without really knowing how it works or possibly doing it
right, and if you do indeed "do it right" then I hope people use your
service and can rid the news of this story every hitting the press again.
Beckman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy
beckman@angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
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nk3569 at yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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|
--- On Fri, 5/2/08, Joe Antkowiak <jantkowiak@netigent.net> wrote:
| Quote: | It's not like he's marketing a hurricane Katrina mixed drink,
|
Speaking of bad taste (or taste, period) - I just had this vision
of a really yummy drink. Someone's gotta make one!
Wait, is it too early to joke about it? what was the mandatory
waiting period again? 
-- Nitzan
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sip at arcdiv.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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|
Peter Beckman wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 2 May 2008, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 08:38:49PM -0700, Trevor Peirce wrote:
| Quote: | I can't see anything sick about sharing information about a service that
can help save lives and I'm sorry it offended you.
|
You weren't sharing information about your service, per se.
You were using the actual death of an actual person as an advertising
point. Yeah, it's a bit tacky. We'll be sure to forward the message
and your home address to the family of the decedent.
|
I really don't see what the problem is. It is horrible tragedy that
someone lost their life possibly due to their VoIP 911 service not routing
correctly. How is it so horrible that this tragedy is a good reminder to
us all that we need to know who are vendors are, what their systems are
capable of, and that we should remember to do something about it?
And what's the problem with Trevor letting people know that he is
concerned about people's safety and ability to reach 911, and is willing
to put his own name and company on the line to provide this service?
The tragedy highlighted a problem in this industry, and Trevor says he has
a good solution for it. If he truly does, then by evaluating and
potentially using Trevor and his company to fill a gap in your 911 service
saves a life, I don't see his post as inappropriate in the least.
I don't see Trevor chasing ambulances. (And pretty much everyone on this
list posts either for help or to offer their services to this community.)
I read the email, and he said here's a problem we should as a VoIP
community avoid, and I have experience in dealing with it, and here's what
I do and how it works and because I do it right it could save lives if you
use it. (Obviously, independently evaluate his claims yourself.)
Trevor, I don't have any problem with what you posted. I think you
presented it fairly, it IS a real problem in this industry with people
offering service without really knowing how it works or possibly doing it
right, and if you do indeed "do it right" then I hope people use your
service and can rid the news of this story every hitting the press again.
Beckman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy
beckman@angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Marketing using FUD always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like the
people who capitalised on the fear of the Y2K bug to sell uneducated
people exceptionally expensive and unnecessary 'survival kits.'
Yes, it's capitalism. But not all capitalism is savoury -- even to all
capitalists.
That said, I don't think Trevor's necessarily harming his reputation or
anything by doing the equivalent of showing a picture of a robbery and
shouting "vigilance!" However, you can't expect that sort of marketing
tactic to sit well with everyone. It's been proven time and time again
that, while it's quite easy to sell things that way, it never makes
people feel good about the purchase.
N.
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lists at masonc.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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C F wrote:
| Quote: | You are sick to try to gain financially from this.
|
If the poster was offering his services to the victims, then that would
be profiteering from someone's misfortune. but no-one on this list is
affected by this event, there's no personal involvement, so this is just
a statistic. It is no worse that an insurance company using hurricane
footage in a TV ad.
If the information was sent to a family member, it's ambulance chasing.
If the information was sent to people in the telephone business, it's
marketing.
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
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jantkowiak at netigent...
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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|
SIP wrote:
| Quote: | Marketing using FUD always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like the
people who capitalised on the fear of the Y2K bug to sell uneducated
people exceptionally expensive and unnecessary 'survival kits.'
|
Very similar. I bet there are many uneducated voip providers out there just
itching to spend money just so they can say they spent money on some kind of 911
assistance.
| Quote: | Yes, it's capitalism. But not all capitalism is savoury -- even to all
capitalists.
That said, I don't think Trevor's necessarily harming his reputation or
anything by doing the equivalent of showing a picture of a robbery and
shouting "vigilance!" However, you can't expect that sort of marketing
tactic to sit well with everyone. It's been proven time and time again
that, while it's quite easy to sell things that way, it never makes
people feel good about the purchase.
|
I agree the method in which it was marketed may not have been...all that
pleasant and probably won't be effective, I just don't think Trevor was due the
personal attack he received.
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trixter at 0xdecafbad.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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|
On Fri, 2008-05-02 at 13:01 -0400, Peter Beckman wrote:
| Quote: | I really don't see what the problem is. It is horrible tragedy that
someone lost their life possibly due to their VoIP 911 service not routing
correctly. How is it so horrible that this tragedy is a good reminder to
us all that we need to know who are vendors are, what their systems are
capable of, and that we should remember to do something about it?
|
In the US politicians used the death of a real person (multiple people
actually) to further their careers and do the 911 legislation. No one
seemed to complain that the government was using peoples death to
further the reach and power of the FCC, grow peoples careers, and so
forth.
They didnt even offer a solution to it, they just passed laws requiring
a solution.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!
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trixter at 0xdecafbad.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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|
On Fri, 2008-05-02 at 10:47 -0700, Nitzan Kon wrote:
| Quote: | --- On Fri, 5/2/08, Joe Antkowiak <jantkowiak@netigent.net> wrote:
| Quote: | It's not like he's marketing a hurricane Katrina mixed drink,
|
Speaking of bad taste (or taste, period) - I just had this vision
of a really yummy drink. Someone's gotta make one!
Wait, is it too early to joke about it? what was the mandatory
waiting period again?
|
according to south park tragic things become funny after 22.3 years.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!
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