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jayson.devor at gmail.com
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 Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:24 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
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Hello Everyone,
We are looking to transition our 23 channels from testing/lab into
production. During testing we used the free open source g729 license
using the instructions found here:
http://blog.manhag.org/2010/05/installing-the-free-g729-codec-for-asterisk/
A little more about our setup. All recordings have been converted to
G729, all voicemail messages are also in G729, finally allow=g729,
disallow=all is specified in our config.
Questions:
1) Is there anything we overlooked in our attempt to implement g729
passthough, and stop all transcoding efforts?
2) do we still need to purchase 23 G729 licenses? If so, is asterisk
10$ license recognized by the patent holders (ie, is Digium authorized
to sell the license on behalf of the patent holders)?
3) Is there a performance/stability/security gain when using the
commercial vs. open source version or vice versa.
I was reluctant to bring this topic up yet again , and yes I did
google around and read the different material on the subject however,
I am still in need of some definitive answers.
Kind Regards,
Jayson Devor.
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paul.belanger at polyb...
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:01 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
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On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Jayson Devor <jayson.devor@gmail.com> wrote:
No such thing as 'free open source g729 license', if you actually read the site:
DISCLAIMER: You might have to pay royalty fees to the G.729/723.1
patent holders for using their algorithm.
So, basically you are illegal using them if you didn't pay for them.
| Quote: | A little more about our setup. All recordings have been converted to
G729, all voicemail messages are also in G729, finally allow=g729,
disallow=all is specified in our config.
Questions:
1) Is there anything we overlooked in our attempt to implement g729
passthough, and stop all transcoding efforts?
2) do we still need to purchase 23 G729 licenses? If so, is asterisk
10$ license recognized by the patent holders (ie, is Digium authorized
to sell the license on behalf of the patent holders)?
|
Yes, getting a license from digium should be sufficient to cover your
usage. Plus you'll be supporting the project.
| Quote: | 3) Is there a performance/stability/security gain when using the
commercial vs. open source version or vice versa.
|
See above about about open source license.
| Quote: | I was reluctant to bring this topic up yet again , and yes I did
google around and read the different material on the subject however,
I am still in need of some definitive answers.
|
--
Paul Belanger | PolyBeacon, Inc.
Jabber: paul.belanger@polybeacon.com | IRC: pabelanger (Freenode)
Github: https://github.com/pabelanger | Twitter: https://twitter.com/pabelanger
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darryl at moores.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:55 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
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On Feb 27, 2014 10:02 PM, "Paul Belanger" <paul.belanger@polybeacon.com (paul.belanger@polybeacon.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
No such thing as 'free open source g729 license', if you actually read the site:
|
There is regarding the copyright on the code. The fact it is also patent encumbered is a different issue.
| Quote: | DISCLAIMER: You might have to pay royalty fees to the G.729/723.1
patent holders for using their algorithm.
So, basically you are illegal using them if you didn't pay for them.
|
Not true. He said it was a lab setup. It is totally legit to use patented processes in an evaluation/lab environment.
| Quote: | | Quote: | 3) Is there a performance/stability/security gain when using the
commercial vs. open source version or vice versa.
|
See above about about open source license.
|
Your comment about open source is irrelevant to performance, stability, and security. WRT these criteria, I would be surprised if there is much of a difference. The free software isn't locked to a mother board, so that might count towards performance by some measures.
Now having said that. I agree once you leave the lab environment and decide you need g.729, you will unfortunatly need a licence to keep using it.
The real question is: is there really any choice other than Digium for the licence? Due to the dual licensing of the asterisk code, even if you could license the codec elsewhere, you might be violating Digium's OSS license when you don't but their commercial asterisk license.
Cheers,
Darryl |
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jayson.devor at gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
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Hello Everyone,
Thank your for your response. There are two critical questions I would
like clarified
kindly:
1) We do not perform any transcoding whatsoever. All recordings, and
voice mail are in G729,
and allow=g729 for all peers and in sip.conf. Is there anything else
we need to perform "g729 passthrough". More importantly are we still
liable? Given that most vendors support G729, why do some still
require the need to transcode?
2) If we decide that we require to purchase licenses, can we purchase
23 licenses and continue to use the open source version?
| Quote: | Darryl Said
The real question is: is there really any choice other than Digium for the licence? Due to
the dual licensing of the asterisk code, even if you could license the codec elsewhere, you > might be violating Digium's OSS license when you don't but their commercial asterisk
license.
|
This only applies to the commercial versions of the codec right? We
are still ok in respect to Digium's OSS license with the open source
should we decide to continue using that version?
I really appreciate some light on this gentlemen.
J.
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tahir at ictinnovation...
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
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| Quote: | 1) We do not perform any transcoding whatsoever. All recordings, and
voice mail are in G729,
and allow=g729 for all peers and in sip.conf. Is there anything else
we need to perform "g729 passthrough". More importantly are we still
liable? Given that most vendors support G729, why do some still
require the need to transcode?
|
As earlier referred following quote from their site
"DISCLAIMER: You might have to pay royalty fees to the G.729/723.1
patent holders for using their algorithm"
You have to pay royalty fee for using their algorithm and it does not matter whether you are trans-coding or not however there is no restriction to pay their royalty fee under testing / evaluation environment.
| Quote: | 2) If we decide that we require to purchase licenses, can we purchase
23 licenses and continue to use the open source version?
|
I do't think there is any restriction to use open source version when you paid their roylity fee
| Quote: | > Darryl Said
| Quote: | The real question is: is there really any choice other than Digium for the licence? Due to
the dual licensing of the asterisk code, even if you could license the codec elsewhere, you > might be violating Digium's OSS license when you don't but their commercial asterisk
license.
|
This only applies to the commercial versions of the codec right? We
are still ok in respect to Digium's OSS license with the open source
should we decide to continue using that version?
|
Yes it is . I do't think there is confilit between GPL license and g.729 patent fee
Regards
Tahir Almas
Managing Partner
ICT Innovations
http://www.ictinnovations.com
Leveraging open source in ICT |
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asterisk_list at earth...
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
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|
On Friday 28 Feb 2014, Tahir Almas wrote:
| Quote: | As earlier referred following quote from their site
"DISCLAIMER: You might have to pay royalty fees to the G.729/723.1
patent holders for using their algorithm"
You have to pay royalty fee for using their algorithm and it does not
matter whether you are trans-coding or not however there is no restriction
to pay their royalty fee under testing / evaluation environment.
|
There is also no requirement to pay any royalty fee in jurisdictions where
software is beyond the scope of patentability (i.e., most of the world except
the USA).
--
AJS
Answers come *after* questions.
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steinwendtner at gmx.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:47 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
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|
On 2014-02-28 14:04, Tahir Almas wrote:
| Quote: | 1) We do not perform any transcoding whatsoever. All recordings, and
voice mail are in G729,
and allow=g729 for all peers and in sip.conf. Is there anything else
we need to perform "g729 passthrough". More importantly are we still
liable? Given that most vendors support G729, why do some still
require the need to transcode?
As earlier referred following quote from their site
"DISCLAIMER: You might have to pay royalty fees to the G.729/723.1
patent holders for using their algorithm"
You have to pay royalty fee for using their algorithm and it does not matter whether you are trans-coding or not however there is no restriction to pay their royalty fee under testing / evaluation
environment.
|
Hmm, wouldn't that mean, that every single ISP needs to pay the fee for passing G.729 data through their network ? They really do not transcode.
If you do not transcode, you do not use their algorithm. This is my opinion, but I 'm not a layer.
Regards
Hans
--
_____________________________________________________________________
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
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asterisk-users mailing list
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paul.belanger at polyb...
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
|
|
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Darryl Moore <darryl@moores.ca> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Feb 27, 2014 10:02 PM, "Paul Belanger" <paul.belanger@polybeacon.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
No such thing as 'free open source g729 license', if you actually read the
site:
|
There is regarding the copyright on the code. The fact it is also patent
encumbered is a different issue.
| Quote: | DISCLAIMER: You might have to pay royalty fees to the G.729/723.1
patent holders for using their algorithm.
So, basically you are illegal using them if you didn't pay for them.
|
Not true. He said it was a lab setup. It is totally legit to use patented
processes in an evaluation/lab environment.
|
Correct, I didn't mention this, since I was assuming OP was talking
about getting it into production. Should have been more clear.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: | 3) Is there a performance/stability/security gain when using the
commercial vs. open source version or vice versa.
|
See above about about open source license.
|
Your comment about open source is irrelevant to performance, stability, and
security. WRT these criteria, I would be surprised if there is much of a
difference. The free software isn't locked to a mother board, so that might
count towards performance by some measures.
Now having said that. I agree once you leave the lab environment and decide
you need g.729, you will unfortunatly need a licence to keep using it.
The real question is: is there really any choice other than Digium for the
licence? Due to the dual licensing of the asterisk code, even if you could
license the codec elsewhere, you might be violating Digium's OSS license
when you don't but their commercial asterisk license.
Cheers,
Darryl
--
_____________________________________________________________________
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello
asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
|
--
Paul Belanger | PolyBeacon, Inc.
Jabber: paul.belanger@polybeacon.com | IRC: pabelanger (Freenode)
Github: https://github.com/pabelanger | Twitter: https://twitter.com/pabelanger
--
_____________________________________________________________________
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello
asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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jayson.devor at gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:00 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
|
|
On 2/28/14, Johann Steinwendtner <steinwendtner@gmx.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On 2014-02-28 14:04, Tahir Almas wrote:
| Quote: | 1) We do not perform any transcoding whatsoever. All recordings, and
voice mail are in G729,
and allow=g729 for all peers and in sip.conf. Is there anything else
we need to perform "g729 passthrough". More importantly are we still
liable? Given that most vendors support G729, why do some still
require the need to transcode?
As earlier referred following quote from their site
"DISCLAIMER: You might have to pay royalty fees to the G.729/723.1
patent holders for using their algorithm"
You have to pay royalty fee for using their algorithm and it does not
matter whether you are trans-coding or not however there is no restriction
to pay their royalty fee under testing / evaluation
environment.
|
Hmm, wouldn't that mean, that every single ISP needs to pay the fee for
passing G.729 data through their network ? They really do not transcode.
If you do not transcode, you do not use their algorithm. This is my opinion,
but I 'm not a layer.
Regards
Hans
--
|
This is what I would expect? Not a laywer either however can someone please
share some light on the legality of straight passing through traffic
using the g729
codec without any transcoding. Is a license require for such cases?
--
_____________________________________________________________________
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello
asterisk-users mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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jayson.devor at gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:04 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
|
|
| Quote: | Correct, I didn't mention this, since I was assuming OP was talking
about getting it into production. Should have been more clear.
|
Sorry I should clarify. We were incubated for the testing period
however now will be depolying
for commercial use. That being said, we do feel the need to
contribute, and staying legit at
the same time. That being said, will purchasing 23 licenses (one for
each channel that we use), and continue to use the open source g729
sorftware keep us legal? Or do we have to use the commercial software
to keep our licenses valid? Sorry, i'm a type of idiot savant
(probably more towards the idiot side), of need of some concrete
answers so I can sleep at night  .
J
--
_____________________________________________________________________
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
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EWieling at nyigc.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
|
|
Asterisk transcodes at many other points. Inband ringing, audio mixing for conferences, beep tones. It is naive to think you can passthrough g729 and never transcode without spending significant amounts of time tracking down each instance Asterisk would have to transcode.
Over the years I've often seen people claiming "I'm only using it for research/educational use so I don't need a license." I don't recall a single one of those people who could point to an actual law or case precedent to back up their claim, at least for the United States. Personally I think it is simply wishful thinking.
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Jayson Devor
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 4:00 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry!
On 2/28/14, Johann Steinwendtner <steinwendtner@gmx.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On 2014-02-28 14:04, Tahir Almas wrote:
| Quote: | 1) We do not perform any transcoding whatsoever. All recordings, and
voice mail are in G729,
and allow=g729 for all peers and in sip.conf. Is there anything else
we need to perform "g729 passthrough". More importantly are we still
liable? Given that most vendors support G729, why do some still
require the need to transcode?
As earlier referred following quote from their site
"DISCLAIMER: You might have to pay royalty fees to the G.729/723.1
patent holders for using their algorithm"
You have to pay royalty fee for using their algorithm and it does not
matter whether you are trans-coding or not however there is no
restriction to pay their royalty fee under testing / evaluation
environment.
|
Hmm, wouldn't that mean, that every single ISP needs to pay the fee
for passing G.729 data through their network ? They really do not transcode.
If you do not transcode, you do not use their algorithm. This is my
opinion, but I 'm not a layer.
Regards
Hans
--
|
This is what I would expect? Not a laywer either however can someone please share some light on the legality of straight passing through traffic using the g729 codec without any transcoding. Is a license require for such cases?
--
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-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
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asterisk-users mailing list
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_____________________________________________________________________
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New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
http://www.asterisk.org/hello
asterisk-users mailing list
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EWieling at nyigc.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
|
|
Why would you use anything other than Digium's fully licensed and fully compatable with Asterisk modules?
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Jayson Devor
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 4:04 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry!
| Quote: | Correct, I didn't mention this, since I was assuming OP was talking
about getting it into production. Should have been more clear.
|
Sorry I should clarify. We were incubated for the testing period however now will be depolying for commercial use. That being said, we do feel the need to contribute, and staying legit at the same time. That being said, will purchasing 23 licenses (one for each channel that we use), and continue to use the open source g729 sorftware keep us legal? Or do we have to use the commercial software to keep our licenses valid? Sorry, i'm a type of idiot savant (probably more towards the idiot side), of need of some concrete answers so I can sleep at night .
J
--
_____________________________________________________________________
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
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asterisk at lists.mino...
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
|
|
On 28/2/14 9:04 pm, Jayson Devor wrote:
| Quote: | That being said, will purchasing 23 licenses (one for
each channel that we use), and continue to use the open source g729
sorftware keep us legal?
|
I know at least half a dozen people who do this so that they can more
effectively balance their licence commitment over a number of services,
rather than locking licences down to MAC addresses of specific NICs in
specific servers. But I'm based in the EU where (as others have said)
patentability laws are quite different.
If you're worried about whether it's legal in your jurisdiction, you
really should speak to a qualified legal professional to allay your
concerns. This list has such an international audience that what's
perfectly acceptable in one jurisdiction might land you in hot water in
another.
Kind regards,
Chris
--
This email is made from 100% recycled electrons
--
_____________________________________________________________________
-- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
New to Asterisk? Join us for a live introductory webinar every Thurs:
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EWieling at nyigc.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry! |
|
|
For 23 channels I recommend a hardware transcoding card.
We use http://www.sangoma.com/products/d100-30-400-sessions/ I think Digium also has a transcoding card also.
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Chris Bagnall
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 4:28 PM
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] G729 Licensing Revisited - I'm Sorry!
On 28/2/14 9:04 pm, Jayson Devor wrote:
| Quote: | That being said, will purchasing 23 licenses (one for each channel
that we use), and continue to use the open source g729 sorftware keep
us legal?
|
I know at least half a dozen people who do this so that they can more effectively balance their licence commitment over a number of services, rather than locking licences down to MAC addresses of specific NICs in specific servers. But I'm based in the EU where (as others have said) patentability laws are quite different.
If you're worried about whether it's legal in your jurisdiction, you really should speak to a qualified legal professional to allay your concerns. This list has such an international audience that what's perfectly acceptable in one jurisdiction might land you in hot water in another.
Kind regards,
Chris
--
This email is made from 100% recycled electrons
--
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