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palbrecht at glccom.com
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palbrecht at glccom.com
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 Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] AstriDevCon 2014: Agenda item Deprecate AMI |
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Not asking for unqualified promises about the future of Asterisk. Simply asking for an acknowledgment of the obvious, that is, Asterisk without the dial plan wouldn’t be Asterisk. The fact that one is not forthcoming raises a red flag with respect to the future of Asterisk. Furthermore, adding “asynchronous AGI” and ARI/Stasis to Asterisk is similarly a cause for concern since it’s a complete break with the original Asterisk design. Since Asterisk is an open source community supported project, one would expect the consultants/developers pushing these changes would be willing to share their vision with the rest of the Asterisk community.
On Oct 27, 2014, at 2:32 PM, Jeffrey Ollie <jeff@ocjtech.us> wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Paul Albrecht <palbrecht@glccom.com> wrote:
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The reason the dial plan can never be deprecated is because Asterisk wouldn’t be Asterisk without the dial plan. Sure, you could re-engineer Asterisk so that it would be “better" for a small select group of users at the expense of the majority of community that use the product as designed for the purpose it was originally intended. However, you’re either very naive or delusional if you think the community is going to follow you down that path. Do you really believe the community is going simply chuck their dial plans and walk away from their investment in Asterisk? Not likely, dude.
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My comment/question wasn't really about dial plans, per se. My
question was about you insisting that Digium make such unqualified
promises about the future of Asterisk. Even though Digium is a
private company, I believe that they are still bound by U.S. laws
regarding forward-looking statements[1].
So even if they wanted to (which I doubt), there's no way you're going
to get the promise that you're looking for.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-looking_statement
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Jeff Ollie
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palbrecht at glccom.com
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] AstriDevCon 2014: Agenda item Deprecate AMI |
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On Oct 28, 2014, at 5:03 PM, Ben Langfeld <ben@langfeld.me (ben@langfeld.me)> wrote:
| Quote: | On 28 October 2014 19:47, Derek Andrew <Derek.Andrew@usask.ca (Derek.Andrew@usask.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: | What is the alternative to the dial plan? Is everyone talking about getting rid of the statements like:
exten => s,1,
what is the alternative?
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Remote applications based on APIs like ARI. This is the start of the discussion, and please remember that nothing has been decided or even presented as a robust plan yet. This is brain-storming.
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We’re not at the start of the “discussion” to deprecate the dial plan. The start of the “discussion” began when some developers decided to try standing Asterisk on its head by adding “asynchronous AGI.” Evidently, that was good so then they continued the “discussion” by adding ARI/Stasis. Now the “discussion” is in full career as ARI/Stasis has metastasized beyond its original scope to encompass all of Asterisk. None of said “discussion” ever happened on the lists nor was the broader Asterisk community involved as far as I can determine. A parallel “discussion” was started by a shill at AstiCon this year to begin to get the “vast unwashed” onboard with ARI/Stasis, that is, so that Matt could come back from AstiCon claiming that the broader Asterisk community is in agreement that ARI/Stasis is the future of Asterisk and that the dial plan can be deprecated. The inevitable result of these parallel paths is a completely predictable train wreck when the developers designing features that users don’t want crash into users who have been using Asterisk as originally designed.
| Quote: | Additionally, note that the original proposal was to deprecate AMI/AGI in favour of ARI once it is feature complete with those protocols; an entirely lesser change than the removal of the dialplan in its entirety.
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So you're saying that deprecating the dial plan is not on the table? How then do you explain statements like this: "Leif: we're in a transition, moving from dialplan model to external control model. Probably need external application to be built for us to move completely away from AMI/AGI.” or this "Paul: take away apps, and whatever is in the core is what we should care about.”
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palbrecht at glccom.com
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] AstriDevCon 2014: Agenda item Deprecate AMI |
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On Oct 29, 2014, at 2:45 PM, Ben Klang <bklang@mojolingo.com (bklang@mojolingo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | On 10/28/2014 06:03 PM, Ben Langfeld wrote:
| Quote: | On 28 October 2014 19:47, Derek Andrew <Derek.Andrew@usask.ca (Derek.Andrew@usask.ca)> wrote: | Quote: | What is the alternative to the dial plan? Is everyone talking about getting rid of the statements like: exten => s,1,
what is the alternative?
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Remote applications based on APIs like ARI. This is the start of the discussion, and please remember that nothing has been decided or even presented as a robust plan yet. This is brain-storming.
Additionally, note that the original proposal was to deprecate AMI/AGI in favour of ARI once it is feature complete with those protocols; an entirely lesser change than the removal of the dialplan in its entirety.
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Since this thread has my name on it, I guess it’s past time that I explain my motivation for making the suggestion, and try to restore some of the context that was present in the discussion at AstriDevCon.
Before I jump into the details of my proposal, I’d like to clarify terms...
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It’s intellectually dishonest to redefine the terms of an argument to presuppose your own conclusion. If you don’t intend to use the term “deprecate” as it is commonly understood by software developers and users than you should avoid the use of the term “deprecate” so that others clearly understand your argument. If you really mean “deprecate” as commonly understood by software developers and users then you should be prepared to defend that proposition.
| Quote: | Now, on to what I originally proposed...
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It’s clear from the title of the agenda item what was proposed. You proposed deprecating AMI/AGI and that entails deprecating the dial plan. The fact that deprecating the dial plan is now on the table is a direct consequence of your proposal. This is reflected in both comments made at AstiCon and Matt’s summary of Astricon on the development list. You can’t have it both ways. You want to deprecate dial plan or not. Which is it?
| Quote: | It is my opinion that while AGI and AMI are probably individually fixable, doing so would cause backward-incompatible changes…
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Deprecating the dial plan and AGI/AMI is incompatible going forward. What is supposed to happen? Are users supposed to throw away there applications whenever ARI/Stasis is feature complete? Is ARI/Stasis really any easier to use than the dial plan? Are we all supposed to use Adhearsion? |
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