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cdl at asgaard.org
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] NovoGate SIP/H323 16/32 FXS/FXO Channel Bank |
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It's unfortunate, but both individuals have already made their
business == spam. We've had this go around with Andy before, and now
the NovoGate. One neophyte mistake I can accept, repeated,
intentional, "misunderstanding" of the rules of the game I can not, I
don't suffer fools gladly, and I suffer people who think me a fool
even less.
Following my policy of not rewarding spam, ever, both of these
companies are on my permanent black list and about to be added to the
kill file. Their loss, there are plenty of commercial entities here
that understand the rules. They will get the business.
And, just before Andy chimes in that this is a CN vs. US thing, I'll
put that to bed right now - I lived and worked, by choice, in Shanghai
for three+ years. I enjoyed it. There are unscrupulous business
people in the US, EU, China, everywhere, poor manners and lack of
respect doesn't obey national boundaries.
Chris
On 18 Apr 2008, at 07.54, Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
| Quote: | No, spams are not welcome to nearly anyone on the Internet, and are
in
fact illegal in the US because they are so hated. Just because you,
Andy, are a spammer who likes getting it yourself doesn't mean that
spamming *everyone* is OK.
This spam was directed not to the asterisk-biz list, but to
individual
people whose email addresses have appeared on the list. It's OK to
send
the *unsolicited*, *commercial* message to the -biz list: that's what
the list is for, and subscribers have *asked* for those messages. All
that's necessary is that the message's subject be asterisk business
(this message would qualify, *if* it were sent only to the list
itself,
not its members individually). List members don't necessarily want to
see every message sent to it. Many of us get the list in "digest"
form,
which compiles sometimes dozens of distracting messages throughout the
day into one distracting message. Which comes packaged as
"asterisk-biz", so we can filter it, either manually by looking at its
subject and sender, or with our email program's automatic filters.
This spam did not use the accepted way we expect to get commercial
messages from the list. Instead it *exploited the list* by harvesting
email addresses from it, then *directly sending messages* to those
addresses. That technique avoids the system of expectations and
protections we use that make an *exception* for the -biz list, and
instead is just spam. Targeted spam, so we're more likely to read it,
even if we're not interested. That's dishonest - and, in the US,
probably criminal.
Andy, you want these kinds of messages, you can get them *when
they're
sent to the list*. You can Google for them. There are marketing
companies who would love to have your name on their list, which often
work with conventions (like VON, etc) to sign you up to all kinds of
vendors, specific to all kinds of interests you might tell them. But
just because you've got a tolerance (and perhaps a fetish) for spam
doesn't mean the rest of us find it acceptable. *We don't.*
Something like 95% of all email is now spam, which means it's not
just
annoying, but it also means that even if we use automatic spam
protection, we're all paying higher costs just to transport all that
worthless email, that will never be read, around the Internet that
we're
all paying for.
Andy, you started using this list by spamming it with messages for
products *not related* to the Asterisk, the *only* subject of
unsolicited commercial messages that is allowed on this list. You got
beat up over it, more than once, but you learned better and now behave
like a responsible member. Before, your messages *made your market
hate
you*, which means that all those messages were a waste (and worse),
because their commercial effect was bad. This new spam is even
worse. It
destroys the initial trust required to start commerce just by
appearing
in inboxes the way it does. It's got the commercial value of the drug
and sex spams that come in through the day - right down to its style,
mostly an image of text, used to bypass spam filters. That's cheating,
and only fools do business with cheaters. I'm disappointed to see that
you don't understand the basic point about spam. And that you're not
wise enough to understand that just because you want something bad,
that
doesn't mean the rest of the community will want it, so it's not OK to
send it.
Spam sucks. Don't make your business equal "sucks". Basic business
principles, unless you're selling sex or drug crap to suckers.
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 03:39 -0500, asterisk-biz-request@lists.digium.com
wrote:
| Quote: | Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:39:31 +0800
From: "Andy Spring" <andyspr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] NovoGate SIP/H323 16/32 FXS/FXO Channel
Bank
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Message-ID:
<e236cf240804180139l33a9ef5ha9782abaa6b20db7@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312"
but if jimmy pan do not send these spams, how can I know they can
provide
these products which I am interested, so some spam maybe are not
useful to
you but useful to some other people. So welcome spams if the spamer
is
in
honesty not like some spamers only send spam but reply nothing.
2008/4/18, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <cdl@asgaard.org>:
| Quote: |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Nope Andy - there is no such thing as good and useful spams.
Chris
On 18 Apr 2008, at 00.42, Andy Spring wrote:
| Quote: | Welcome good and useful spams
2008/4/18, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <cdl@asgaard.org>: -----BEGIN
PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Yup - just dropped him into the spam filter.
Chris
On 17 Apr 2008, at 16.04, Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
| Quote: | Is anyone else getting spammed by Jimmy Pan
|
|
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<jimmypan@icstel.com
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Quote: |
directly to your direct email address, with the quoted/appended
message,
plus a big image of their product (including more pitch text and
contact
info in pixels) in the message?
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 00:22 +0200, Jimmy Pan wrote:
--
(C) Matthew Rubenstein
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|
|
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--
(C) Matthew Rubenstein
|
- ---
李柯睿
Check my PGP key here:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCB67593B
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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asterisk-biz at ics-il...
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] NovoGate SIP/H323 16/32 FXS/FXO Channel Bank |
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I get UCE from VoIP vendors all of the time across many company addresses
(billing, sales, support, etc.).
----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Rubenstein" <email@mattruby.com>
To: "Asterisk -Biz" <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] NovoGate SIP/H323 16/32 FXS/FXO Channel Bank
| Quote: | Is anyone else getting spammed by Jimmy Pan <jimmypan@icstel.com>
directly to your direct email address, with the quoted/appended message,
plus a big image of their product (including more pitch text and contact
info in pixels) in the message?
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 00:22 +0200, Jimmy Pan wrote:
--
(C) Matthew Rubenstein
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
|
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz |
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asterisk-biz at ics-il...
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] NovoGate SIP/H323 16/32 FXS/FXO Channel Bank |
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It technically isn't SPAM, but people jump the gun a lot on email they didn't request, whether it's SPAM, UCE, etc.
----------
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
| Quote: | ----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Spring (andyspr@gmail.com)
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion (asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com)
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] NovoGate SIP/H323 16/32 FXS/FXO Channel Bank
but if jimmy pan do not send these spams, how can I know they can provide these products which I am interested, so some spam maybe are not useful to you but useful to some other people. So welcome spams if the spamer is in honesty not like some spamers only send spam but reply nothing.
2008/4/18, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <cdl@asgaard.org (cdl@asgaard.org)>: | Quote: | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Nope Andy - there is no such thing as good and useful spams.
Chris
On 18 Apr 2008, at 00.42, Andy Spring wrote:
| Quote: | Welcome good and useful spams
2008/4/18, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE <cdl@asgaard.org (cdl@asgaard.org)>: -----BEGIN
PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Yup - just dropped him into the spam filter.
Chris
On 17 Apr 2008, at 16.04, Matthew Rubenstein wrote:
| Quote: | Is anyone else getting spammed by Jimmy Pan <jimmypan@icstel.com (jimmypan@icstel.com)
directly to your direct email address, with the quoted/appended
message,
plus a big image of their product (including more pitch text and
contact
info in pixels) in the message?
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 00:22 +0200, Jimmy Pan wrote:
--
(C) Matthew Rubenstein
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
|
- ---
Check my PGP key here:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCB67593B
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJICE1VAAoJEGmx2Mt/+Iw/djEH/0Xfl8ndSqQxlMu1bLaHKl0e
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=+1Ep
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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--
andy
andyspr@gmail.com (andyspr@gmail.com) _______________________________________________
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asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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|
- ---
Check my PGP key here:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCB67593B
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJICFiKAAoJEGmx2Mt/+Iw//38H/0QlOjli4Df3wnQLePnBhoII
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=5CN/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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|
--
andy
andyspr@gmail.com (andyspr@gmail.com)
_______________________________________________
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