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sales at calleveryone.com
Guest
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 Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
 |
|
I agree with Peter and Trevor and Joe.....and perhaps other lurkers.
What happened to the person is tragic. More importantly it created yet
another black eye on our industry by that provider not providing 911
services. I would not even be surprised to see some sort of criminal
charges against that provider.
<robb>
on 5/2/08 1:32 PM, Joe Antkowiak at jantkowiak@netigent.net wrote:
| Quote: | I have to agree with Peter here...I don't see anything all that wrong with
Trevor's message. Isn't this kind of how capitalism works? Bad things happen
and we figure out a way to make it better, and support ourselves in the
process... It's not like he's marketing a hurricane Katrina mixed drink, he's
marketing a service that (regardless of whether or not it actually works) is
intended to help prevent this from happening...
Peter Beckman wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 2 May 2008, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 08:38:49PM -0700, Trevor Peirce wrote:
| Quote: | I can't see anything sick about sharing information about a service that
can help save lives and I'm sorry it offended you.
|
You weren't sharing information about your service, per se.
You were using the actual death of an actual person as an advertising
point. Yeah, it's a bit tacky. We'll be sure to forward the message
and your home address to the family of the decedent.
|
I really don't see what the problem is. It is horrible tragedy that
someone lost their life possibly due to their VoIP 911 service not routing
correctly. How is it so horrible that this tragedy is a good reminder to
us all that we need to know who are vendors are, what their systems are
capable of, and that we should remember to do something about it?
And what's the problem with Trevor letting people know that he is
concerned about people's safety and ability to reach 911, and is willing
to put his own name and company on the line to provide this service?
The tragedy highlighted a problem in this industry, and Trevor says he has
a good solution for it. If he truly does, then by evaluating and
potentially using Trevor and his company to fill a gap in your 911 service
saves a life, I don't see his post as inappropriate in the least.
I don't see Trevor chasing ambulances. (And pretty much everyone on this
list posts either for help or to offer their services to this community.)
I read the email, and he said here's a problem we should as a VoIP
community avoid, and I have experience in dealing with it, and here's what
I do and how it works and because I do it right it could save lives if you
use it. (Obviously, independently evaluate his claims yourself.)
Trevor, I don't have any problem with what you posted. I think you
presented it fairly, it IS a real problem in this industry with people
offering service without really knowing how it works or possibly doing it
right, and if you do indeed "do it right" then I hope people use your
service and can rid the news of this story every hitting the press again.
Beckman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy
beckman@angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/
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sip at arcdiv.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
Joe Antkowiak wrote:
| Quote: | SIP wrote:
| Quote: | Marketing using FUD always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like the
people who capitalised on the fear of the Y2K bug to sell uneducated
people exceptionally expensive and unnecessary 'survival kits.'
|
Very similar. I bet there are many uneducated voip providers out there just
itching to spend money just so they can say they spent money on some kind of 911
assistance.
| Quote: | Yes, it's capitalism. But not all capitalism is savoury -- even to all
capitalists.
That said, I don't think Trevor's necessarily harming his reputation or
anything by doing the equivalent of showing a picture of a robbery and
shouting "vigilance!" However, you can't expect that sort of marketing
tactic to sit well with everyone. It's been proven time and time again
that, while it's quite easy to sell things that way, it never makes
people feel good about the purchase.
|
I agree the method in which it was marketed may not have been...all that
pleasant and probably won't be effective, I just don't think Trevor was due the
personal attack he received.
|
Eh. It's the Internet. My opinion is, if you can't weather a few
personal attacks, you should stay offline. They abound.
Is it deserving? Probably not. Will it happen time and time again? Of
course.
N.
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tpeirce at digitalcon.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
sales department wrote:
| Quote: | What happened to the person is tragic. More importantly it created yet
another black eye on our industry by that provider not providing 911
services. I would not even be surprised to see some sort of criminal
charges against that provider.
|
Thank you. It's good to see that my personal thoughts are mirrored by at
least a few of you that have replied. When a tragedies like this
continue to happen it looks bad for us all and makes it that much harder
for us to keep and find new business. This is why it's crucial that even
the smallest of providers ensure they do 9-1-1 properly.
As a direct result of recent news, I've had to explain to my customers
how their 9-1-1 works and explain the steps taken that ensure they will
receive help when they need it. However, as long as other VoIP providers
keep having problems with emergency calls, I, you, and everyone else
will have to convince our customers that *we* aren't going to drop the
ball when it comes to connecting emergency calls.
As far as this particular incident, I've seen reports that the 9-1-1
call was answered and the caller was told that an ambulance was
dispatched, although to an old address. The most recent details I've
seen are at http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/05/02/crtc-voip.html
My guess is the provider was handling 9-1-1 in-house without properly
trained call takers. I've heard a few 9-1-1 calls and the first thing in
every single one of them was confirmation of the current address (a CRTC
requirement, in fact) which would have prevented this error. In the
calls I've heard the Ambulance Service remains on the line with the
caller until paramedics arrive to make sure they can find the residence.
With that, I am not going to reply to this thread any more. It seems my
posts upset too many readers who do not share my views on highlighting
failures to underscore the importance of doing things right or educating
smaller providers about options that they can afford to minimize their
risk of harming their customers.
Best regards,
Trevor Peirce
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stotaro at totarotechn...
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Trevor Peirce <tpeirce@digitalcon.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | sales department wrote:
| Quote: | What happened to the person is tragic. More importantly it created yet
another black eye on our industry by that provider not providing 911
services. I would not even be surprised to see some sort of criminal
charges against that provider.
|
Thank you. It's good to see that my personal thoughts are mirrored by at
least a few of you that have replied. When a tragedies like this
continue to happen it looks bad for us all and makes it that much harder
for us to keep and find new business. This is why it's crucial that even
the smallest of providers ensure they do 9-1-1 properly.
As a direct result of recent news, I've had to explain to my customers
how their 9-1-1 works and explain the steps taken that ensure they will
receive help when they need it. However, as long as other VoIP providers
keep having problems with emergency calls, I, you, and everyone else
will have to convince our customers that *we* aren't going to drop the
ball when it comes to connecting emergency calls.
As far as this particular incident, I've seen reports that the 9-1-1
call was answered and the caller was told that an ambulance was
dispatched, although to an old address. The most recent details I've
seen are at http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/05/02/crtc-voip.html
My guess is the provider was handling 9-1-1 in-house without properly
trained call takers. I've heard a few 9-1-1 calls and the first thing in
every single one of them was confirmation of the current address (a CRTC
requirement, in fact) which would have prevented this error. In the
calls I've heard the Ambulance Service remains on the line with the
caller until paramedics arrive to make sure they can find the residence.
With that, I am not going to reply to this thread any more. It seems my
posts upset too many readers who do not share my views on highlighting
failures to underscore the importance of doing things right or educating
smaller providers about options that they can afford to minimize their
risk of harming their customers.
Best regards,
Trevor Peirce
|
Personally, when I advise on or propose a system, I recommend getting
at least one POTS line for fax and 911 if the customer is set on using
a VoIP solution.
Moreover, whenever I turn up or even start servicing an existing
system, I call 911 and tell the operator that I am "the telephone guy"
and that I wanted to confirm that they have the proper name and
address for that number.
I am not taking any chances of having to live with a tragedy that I
could have prevented by a single test phone call (not to mention the
legal ramifications). The operators are ALWAYS very cooperative and I
feel much better.
I make it a point to do this with the customer present, it shows a
high level of "Best Practices". To date out of many many systems,
probably six or seven had incorrect information (on TDM PRIs even!) so
in reality, I may have averted real world life and death situations.
Now that VoIP 911 and VoIP in general is being demanded as the end to
end solution by customers, if I cannot sway them to get a POTS line, I
would have to feel comfortable in a VoIP provider's ability to handle
911 which would include regular testing.
Contrary to Public Enemy, 911 is no joke.
Thanks,
Steve Totaro
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mroberts1818 at gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
Same here.
Being this is a business list - how would other sales/business/marketing minded people promote their 911 service? Would you incorporate a real life scenario? Yes? How would you address the tact aspect?
Your thoughts,
Mike
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: sales department <sales@calleveryone.com>
Date: Fri, 02 May 2008 17:37:08
To:Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to you
I agree with Peter and Trevor and Joe.....and perhaps other lurkers.
What happened to the person is tragic. More importantly it created yet
another black eye on our industry by that provider not providing 911
services. I would not even be surprised to see some sort of criminal
charges against that provider.
<robb>
on 5/2/08 1:32 PM, Joe Antkowiak at jantkowiak@netigent.net wrote:
| Quote: | I have to agree with Peter here...I don't see anything all that wrong with
Trevor's message. Isn't this kind of how capitalism works? Bad things happen
and we figure out a way to make it better, and support ourselves in the
process... It's not like he's marketing a hurricane Katrina mixed drink, he's
marketing a service that (regardless of whether or not it actually works) is
intended to help prevent this from happening...
Peter Beckman wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 2 May 2008, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 08:38:49PM -0700, Trevor Peirce wrote:
| Quote: | I can't see anything sick about sharing information about a service that
can help save lives and I'm sorry it offended you.
|
You weren't sharing information about your service, per se.
You were using the actual death of an actual person as an advertising
point. Yeah, it's a bit tacky. We'll be sure to forward the message
and your home address to the family of the decedent.
|
I really don't see what the problem is. It is horrible tragedy that
someone lost their life possibly due to their VoIP 911 service not routing
correctly. How is it so horrible that this tragedy is a good reminder to
us all that we need to know who are vendors are, what their systems are
capable of, and that we should remember to do something about it?
And what's the problem with Trevor letting people know that he is
concerned about people's safety and ability to reach 911, and is willing
to put his own name and company on the line to provide this service?
The tragedy highlighted a problem in this industry, and Trevor says he has
a good solution for it. If he truly does, then by evaluating and
potentially using Trevor and his company to fill a gap in your 911 service
saves a life, I don't see his post as inappropriate in the least.
I don't see Trevor chasing ambulances. (And pretty much everyone on this
list posts either for help or to offer their services to this community.)
I read the email, and he said here's a problem we should as a VoIP
community avoid, and I have experience in dealing with it, and here's what
I do and how it works and because I do it right it could save lives if you
use it. (Obviously, independently evaluate his claims yourself.)
Trevor, I don't have any problem with what you posted. I think you
presented it fairly, it IS a real problem in this industry with people
offering service without really knowing how it works or possibly doing it
right, and if you do indeed "do it right" then I hope people use your
service and can rid the news of this story every hitting the press again.
Beckman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Beckman Internet Guy
beckman@angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|
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m345 at netvision.net.il
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
BTW - small providers can use either 911enabled or DASH 911, The setup and monthly costs are pretty reasonable and the setup is easy.
Moshe
SIP wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | Joe Antkowiak wrote:
| Quote: | SIP wrote:
| Quote: | Marketing using FUD always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's like the
people who capitalised on the fear of the Y2K bug to sell uneducated
people exceptionally expensive and unnecessary 'survival kits.'
|
Very similar. I bet there are many uneducated voip providers out there just
itching to spend money just so they can say they spent money on some kind of 911
assistance.
| Quote: | Yes, it's capitalism. But not all capitalism is savoury -- even to all
capitalists.
That said, I don't think Trevor's necessarily harming his reputation or
anything by doing the equivalent of showing a picture of a robbery and
shouting "vigilance!" However, you can't expect that sort of marketing
tactic to sit well with everyone. It's been proven time and time again
that, while it's quite easy to sell things that way, it never makes
people feel good about the purchase.
|
I agree the method in which it was marketed may not have been...all that
pleasant and probably won't be effective, I just don't think Trevor was due the
personal attack he received.
|
Eh. It's the Internet. My opinion is, if you can't weather a few
personal attacks, you should stay offline. They abound.
Is it deserving? Probably not. Will it happen time and time again? Of
course.
N.
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jra at baylink.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 11:26:07PM +0200, Trixter aka Bret McDanel wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | Wait, is it too early to joke about it? what was the mandatory
waiting period again? 
|
according to south park tragic things become funny after 22.3 years.
|
Lisa Lampanelli says that New York comedians were making 9/11 jokes...
on 9/12. It has to be *funny*, is the thing.
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)
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jra at baylink.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 08:57:00AM -0400, Steve Totaro wrote:
| Quote: | Moreover, whenever I turn up or even start servicing an existing
system, I call 911 and tell the operator that I am "the telephone guy"
and that I wanted to confirm that they have the proper name and
address for that number.
|
I have heard that you should do this by calling the 9-1-1 line
directly, and that you should call the PSAP on a toll line (which, I
guess, you should "just know") to confirm the ALI.
How do those calls go when you do them, Steve?
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)
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jra at baylink.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 07:38:39PM -0400, SIP wrote:
| Quote: | Eh. It's the Internet. My opinion is, if you can't weather a few
personal attacks, you should stay offline. They abound.
|
*My* point was that Trevor *volunteered* for his "personal attack" (it
wasn't; it was a *professional* attack, on a businessperson, on a
business list.. Different thing *entirely*).
The dead guy, and his family, *did not*. And are not conducting business.
It's just not cricket.
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)
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sip at arcdiv.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
mroberts1818@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Same here.
Being this is a business list - how would other sales/business/marketing minded people promote their 911 service? Would you incorporate a real life scenario? Yes? How would you address the tact aspect?
Your thoughts,
|
My personal thoughts are this:
1) Using the death of a child in marketing of ANY kind is an emotional
appeal. With emotional appeals, you get emotional responses. That's just
the way marketing goes. They may be positive emotional responses (people
linking their compassion to a desire to 'never let it happen again' sort
of feeling), or they may be negative emotional responses (id est, "How
could you exploit the death of a child for your financial gain!").
Either way, you have to be prepared for that sort of response, and
market accordingly.
There's a great book called The Leader's Guide to Storytelling:
Mastering the Art and Discipline of the Business Narrative (Stephen
Denning) where he discusses the most common reactions to stories of a
particular theme. In this case, a negative story is often associated
with teaching a lesson. It is NOT, however, the best approach for
motivating a person or company to actually proactively change or gear up
toward a new strategy. For that, you need to present a different KIND of
supporting story.
When looking for a positive emotional response, you need to give a
positive emotional stimulus.
2) Build trust. You can't just simply drop into a mailing list and say,
"Don't let tragedy happen to you. Trust me to help you avert it." Who
are you? Why should I trust you with the averting this tragedy? Again,
back to the business narrative, it helps to be able to give a situation
in which trust in you was well-placed. Even if it's something as simple
as a customer testimonial or example in which you were able to help
someone with your services. If you don't have this, you had better start
getting that information, because people are going to want it. Metrics
and statistics help, but they only go so far toward assuaging the
misgivings people may have.
Above all, speak the truth. When you're giving your examples or relating
your stories, they must be true. Artificial customer testimonials do not
build trust. If your customers are truly so thankful for your services,
they will often consent to being a reference and will allow others to
contact them as such.
3) Don't grab your supporting data fresh from the headlines before all
the truth and details come out. In this story, for instance, there's no
mention given as to WHY the 911 call went to the wrong city. In the US,
that ends up usually being inconvenient, but the E911 call centers are
generally pretty good at transferring you to a call center close by. Did
this not happen? Why not? What would have caused the ambulance to take
so long? Was it actually being DISPATCHED from a city too far away?
That's a breakdown of the 911 system, not of VoIP.
Clearly the call went through from VoIP to a 911 call center, so the
provider WAS giving 911 services. It just went to the wrong call center.
Why? Was this the VoIP provider's fault? The customer for not updating
location information? The 911 provider's fault for not routing properly?
None of these questions are answered, so we're left with more questions.
It's not a simple, clear-cut case of a VoIP provider not having 911
services. It's a case of a provider having 911 services, but they didn't
work properly. THIS is the most important aspect of this, because it
creates a scenario in which one distrusts the VoIP 911 provider almost
immediately out of the gate. How can one expect to sell services when
one is fostering an automatic distrust in them at the start of the
marketing appeal?
While this is a mailing list, basic marketing rules still most
definitely apply.
N.
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aggibson at cogeco.ca
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
|
|
SIP wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | mroberts1818@gmail.com (mroberts1818@gmail.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Same here.
Being this is a business list - how would other sales/business/marketing minded people promote their 911 service? Would you incorporate a real life scenario? Yes? How would you address the tact aspect?
Your thoughts,
|
My personal thoughts are this:
1) Using the death of a child in marketing of ANY kind is an emotional
appeal. With emotional appeals, you get emotional responses. That's just
the way marketing goes. They may be positive emotional responses (people
linking their compassion to a desire to 'never let it happen again' sort
of feeling), or they may be negative emotional responses (id est, "How
could you exploit the death of a child for your financial gain!").
Either way, you have to be prepared for that sort of response, and
market accordingly.
There's a great book called The Leader's Guide to Storytelling:
Mastering the Art and Discipline of the Business Narrative (Stephen
Denning) where he discusses the most common reactions to stories of a
particular theme. In this case, a negative story is often associated
with teaching a lesson. It is NOT, however, the best approach for
motivating a person or company to actually proactively change or gear up
toward a new strategy. For that, you need to present a different KIND of
supporting story.
When looking for a positive emotional response, you need to give a
positive emotional stimulus.
2) Build trust. You can't just simply drop into a mailing list and say,
"Don't let tragedy happen to you. Trust me to help you avert it." Who
are you? Why should I trust you with the averting this tragedy? Again,
back to the business narrative, it helps to be able to give a situation
in which trust in you was well-placed. Even if it's something as simple
as a customer testimonial or example in which you were able to help
someone with your services. If you don't have this, you had better start
getting that information, because people are going to want it. Metrics
and statistics help, but they only go so far toward assuaging the
misgivings people may have.
Above all, speak the truth. When you're giving your examples or relating
your stories, they must be true. Artificial customer testimonials do not
build trust. If your customers are truly so thankful for your services,
they will often consent to being a reference and will allow others to
contact them as such.
3) Don't grab your supporting data fresh from the headlines before all
the truth and details come out. In this story, for instance, there's no
mention given as to WHY the 911 call went to the wrong city. In the US,
that ends up usually being inconvenient, but the E911 call centers are
generally pretty good at transferring you to a call center close by. Did
this not happen? Why not? What would have caused the ambulance to take
so long? Was it actually being DISPATCHED from a city too far away?
That's a breakdown of the 911 system, not of VoIP.
Clearly the call went through from VoIP to a 911 call center, so the
provider WAS giving 911 services. It just went to the wrong call center.
Why? Was this the VoIP provider's fault? The customer for not updating
location information? The 911 provider's fault for not routing properly?
None of these questions are answered, so we're left with more questions.
It's not a simple, clear-cut case of a VoIP provider not having 911
services. It's a case of a provider having 911 services, but they didn't
work properly. THIS is the most important aspect of this, because it
creates a scenario in which one distrusts the VoIP 911 provider almost
immediately out of the gate. How can one expect to sell services when
one is fostering an automatic distrust in them at the start of the
marketing appeal?
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Thanks for articulating the problems so well.
Paragraph 3 explains the difficulty I had with the OP.
Since I do not believe, as the headline implies, that VoIP is killing our children, I made an effort (PRIOR to posting!) to find out what had really happened. I read the article:-
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080501.wphone02/BNStory/National/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20080501.wphone02%3E%20&id=RTGAM.20080501.wphone02
The few who read beyond the first few paragraphs may have found that the main problem was that the billing address had been updated after the customer moved but not the 911 address. The provider thought the customer should have updated this. The customer was surprised that the provider hadn't made the update.
A later story:-
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080504.wphone05/BNStory/National
confirms this.
We have a clash between the POTS model where the address for the phone number is inseparable from the 911 address (and your bellco took care of the details) and the VoIP model where there is little or no physical connection between the two and there is now some responsibility on the part of the customer to keep this up to date.
How do the current 911 service offerings address this?
regards,
Drew |
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tpeirce at digitalcon.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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Drew Gibson wrote:
| Quote: | We have a clash between the POTS model where the address for the phone
number is inseparable from the 911 address (and your bellco took care
of the details) and the VoIP model where there is little or no
physical connection between the two and there is now some
responsibility on the part of the customer to keep this up to date.
How do the current 911 service offerings address this?
|
VoIP 911 "9-1-1 Do you need Police, Fire, or Ambulance?"
Caller "Ambulance"
VoIP 911 "Is your current address 555 Your Street in Big Town, Ontario?"
Caller "No - it's 444 New Street in Other Town, Alberta"
VoIP 911"Okay, please hold while I connect you"
(because it's a new address the dispatch has to lookup where to transfer
the call to)
VoIP 911 "I'm connecting the call, please stay on the line caller."
Ringing
Local 911 "9-1-1 Do you need Police, Fire, or Ambulance?"
VoIP 911 "Ambulance"
Local 911 "Okay, what is the emergency?"
VoIP 911 "I have a Voice over IP caller on the line from 444 New Street
in Other Town, Alberta. Is this your area?"
Local 911 "Yes it is."
VoIP 911 "Their call back number is 403-555-1234. Go ahead caller"
Caller and local dispatch communicate, and local dispatch usually
remains on the line until paramedics arrive giving any advise they can
and obtaining status updates on the situation for the paramedics as they
are on route.
The VoIP 911 dispatcher remains on the line to ensure the call completes
properly and is connected to the correct local dispatch centre.
The only time the registered address is used on it's own without
confirmation from the caller is when the caller hangs up, cannot speak,
or can't remember their address. In this case the local Police are
dispatched and it becomes their problem to follow up and determine if
there is an emergency or not.
From what I've read in the news it seems in this particular case when
the customer dialed 9-1-1 it rang five times with no answer. Someone
(customer service, perhaps?) called them back and asked if they were
okay. The person who called back promised to have an ambulance
dispatched. I haven't seen any details beyond this other than the CRTC
said they were looking for a recording of the 9-1-1 call to confirm that
current regulations were followed.
Source 1: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/05/01/voip-folo.html
Source 2: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/05/02/crtc-voip.html
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aggibson at cogeco.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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Trevor Peirce wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | Drew Gibson wrote:
| Quote: | We have a clash between the POTS model where the address for the phone
number is inseparable from the 911 address (and your bellco took care
of the details) and the VoIP model where there is little or no
physical connection between the two and there is now some
responsibility on the part of the customer to keep this up to date.
How do the current 911 service offerings address this?
|
VoIP 911 "9-1-1 Do you need Police, Fire, or Ambulance?"
Caller "Ambulance"
VoIP 911 "Is your current address 555 Your Street in Big Town, Ontario?"
Caller "No - it's 444 New Street in Other Town, Alberta"
|
<-----SNIP ----->
| Quote: | The VoIP 911 dispatcher remains on the line to ensure the call completes
properly and is connected to the correct local dispatch centre.
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Yes, this is how it works on paper, and 98% of the time in real life
| Quote: | | Quote: | The only time the registered address is used on it's own without
confirmation from the caller is when the caller hangs up, cannot speak,
or can't remember their address. In this case the local Police are
dispatched and it becomes their problem to follow up and determine if
there is an emergency or not.
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This call was one of the marginal cases and this is the question I was trying to ask. As with most emergencies, this situation was created by a combination of failures.
Rightly or wrongly the current situation is that...
1. The customer expects the Telco to take care of 911 entirely, as they always have in the past.
2. The VoIP provider expects the customer to update their 911 address, as the provider cannot strictly control location (except the cable providers such as Shaw Cable, through which the ambulance was correctly dispatched)
I'll leave it to the lawyers to apportion blame but, in the mean time, how is this disconnect being addressed by VoIP and 911 service providers?
regards,
Drew |
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jra at baylink.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 07:35:30AM -0700, Trevor Peirce wrote:
| Quote: | From what I've read in the news it seems in this particular case when
the customer dialed 9-1-1 it rang five times with no answer. Someone
(customer service, perhaps?) called them back and asked if they were
okay.
|
I have had this happen: I was calling in an auto accident, and I didn't
even hear the first ring when I saw the fire engines coming over the
hill.
Almost immediately, I got a call back from a 10-digit DN which turned
out to be the dispatcher at the PSAP checking to see that everything
was ok.
This was Nextel, but the same principles likely apply.
Cheers,
-- jr 'yes, I saved the number; do I look like an idiot?' a
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)
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stotaro at totarotechn...
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] VoIP 9-1-1 failure - don't let it happen to y |
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On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 08:57:00AM -0400, Steve Totaro wrote:
| Quote: | Moreover, whenever I turn up or even start servicing an existing
system, I call 911 and tell the operator that I am "the telephone guy"
and that I wanted to confirm that they have the proper name and
address for that number.
|
I have heard that you should do this by calling the 9-1-1 line
directly, and that you should call the PSAP on a toll line (which, I
guess, you should "just know") to confirm the ALI.
How do those calls go when you do them, Steve?
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)
|
The calls go well with 911. A few times, the operator seemed slightly
annoyed but in the DC/Balto area, they are overworked and
understaffed.
http://www.911dispatch.com/info/fact_figures.html
# 1,296 PSAPs are staffed by a single, on-duty dispatcher (NENA, 2003)
# Washington (DC) receives 1.8 million 911 calls per year, Los Angeles
5 million, Baltimore (MD) 1.7 million
The customer is almost always in shock when I make the call but I feel
it goes a long way to show that you are not just concerned with
selling a system and making a buck, you actually care about their
wellbeing. The six or seven that had the wrong information, the
customers were very thankful that I the testing.
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