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jmesquita at gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

We have very high taxes on hardware imports in Brazil, so software is
not a problem on the equation. Cisco's routers for example are 3 times
more expensive here then in the US (even the cheap ones). If the price
of the equipment is compared to the price of the G729 license, the
latter becomes quite insignificant. And bw has poor quality and high
prices.

The same rule applies to all Latin America.

Hope I have illustrated the picture correctly.

JMesquita


On Jan 23, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Michael Collins wrote:

Quote:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Rodrigo P. Telles
<telles-listas@devel-it.com.br> wrote:
Quote:
Hi Dave,

Down here in Brazil, the bandwidth costs is very high (around U$
400.00/Mb) so it should be valid only for a "non" third
world country.
G729 and G723.1 is almost a law here, if you don't play at least
with G729 your ITSP is out of mark share!

My 2 cents from a third world country.

What is the patent and licensing situation in Brazil? Those are also
factors. $10/port might be cheap in the US but in Brazil it could be
much more? (I'm asking...)
-MC

Quote:

Regards,
Rodrigo Telles

Em 23-01-2009 03:09, David Knell escreveu:
Quote:
Steve Underwood wrote:
Quote:
Depends what you are after. Speex offers the quality of G.729 at
around
the same processing load. However, nobody seems to want to pay
for the
processing load of G.729. Almost everything uses G.729A. Half the
processing load, but significantly poorer quality.

VoIP is mostly a race to the bottom, and people wonder why it
makes no
money for provides. :-\

And, at the wholesale level, it makes no sense whatsoever to
compress calls
any more: bandwidth is so cheap (and has been for a while) that
the loss in
call quality - especially from tandem compressions - and the
increased
processing requirements and other bits of expense do not stack
up. Case in
point: we moved a route from G.711 to G.729, and saw the ACD drop
from
over 10 to under 7 minutes. It was a route to mobiles, so the
audio was
being
recompressed with the GSM codec on its way to the handsets.
Economically,
had we carried on using G.729, we'd have lost about 30% of our
margin on
that route.

--Dave


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krivushinme at rn-info...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:17 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

On Saturday 24 January 2009 05:59:08 Rehan Allah Wala wrote:
Quote:
Spacibah Balshoi

When are you making g723 for the Russians?

I'm so sorry, but g729 is only one we need. But you can do it yourself from
free asterisk codec - it's not so hard, just see my code and compare it with
mod_g723 and asterisk code. Work for one day. And I'm not programer.

In fact I can do it, but not now. Time time time...

--
С уважением, Кривушин Михаил
Ведущий специалист отдела телекоммуникаций,
ООО "РН-Информ" филиал в г.Томске,
г. Томск сот. +7 913 865 78 66
icq: 218 744 127
xmpp: KrivushinME@jabber.ru
mail: KrivushinME@rn-inform.tomsk.ru

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rehan at supertec.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:17 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Great, well I am not a programmer and do not understand the code at all Smile

My Apology

Rehan

Quote:
On Saturday 24 January 2009 05:59:08 Rehan Allah Wala wrote:
Quote:
Spacibah Balshoi

When are you making g723 for the Russians?

I'm so sorry, but g729 is only one we need. But you can do it yourself from
free asterisk codec - it's not so hard, just see my code and compare it with
mod_g723 and asterisk code. Work for one day. And I'm not programer.

In fact I can do it, but not now. Time time time...

--
,
,
"-" .,
. . +7 913 865 78 66
icq: 218 744 127
xmpp: KrivushinME@jabber.ru
mail: KrivushinME@rn-inform.tomsk.ru

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Rehan Ahmed AllahWala
Msn/Yahoo/GoogleTalk/Email: Rehan@Rehan.com
http://www.supertec.com/ - Internet Telephony Solutions
Http://www.DIDX.net - DID Number Market Place.
Don't Remember Me ? Visit http://www.Rehan.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
By Gandhi.

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." - Gandhi


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telles-listas at devel...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Hi Michael,

I'm not sure about this, when we need to use G729 on asterisk for example, we pay the digium (U$ 10/channel) licenses.
U$ 1.00 dolar = R$ 2.31 (Brazilian Real - local currency).

Att.,

Em 23-01-2009 18:29, Michael Collins escreveu:
Quote:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Rodrigo P. Telles
<telles-listas@devel-it.com.br> wrote:
Quote:
Hi Dave,

Down here in Brazil, the bandwidth costs is very high (around U$ 400.00/Mb) so it should be valid only for a "non" third
world country.
G729 and G723.1 is almost a law here, if you don't play at least with G729 your ITSP is out of mark share!

My 2 cents from a third world country.

What is the patent and licensing situation in Brazil? Those are also
factors. $10/port might be cheap in the US but in Brazil it could be
much more? (I'm asking...)
-MC



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alhakeem at gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Is Brazil a 3rd world country ? The last I hear Brazil was building
aeroplanes, has it's own space and nuclear program and a GNP UK would be
envious of.
Cheers,
AH

-----Original Message-----
From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org
[mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Rodrigo
P. Telles
Sent: 26 January 2009 20:07
To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org
Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729

Hi Michael,

I'm not sure about this, when we need to use G729 on asterisk for example,
we pay the digium (U$ 10/channel) licenses.
U$ 1.00 dolar = R$ 2.31 (Brazilian Real - local currency).

Att.,

Em 23-01-2009 18:29, Michael Collins escreveu:
Quote:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Rodrigo P. Telles
<telles-listas@devel-it.com.br> wrote:
Quote:
Hi Dave,

Down here in Brazil, the bandwidth costs is very high (around U$
400.00/Mb) so it should be valid only for a "non" third world country.
G729 and G723.1 is almost a law here, if you don't play at least with
G729 your ITSP is out of mark share!
Quote:
Quote:

My 2 cents from a third world country.

What is the patent and licensing situation in Brazil? Those are also
factors. $10/port might be cheap in the US but in Brazil it could be
much more? (I'm asking...) -MC



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steveu at coppice.org
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Hi Abdul,

Abdul Hakeem wrote:
Quote:
Is Brazil a 3rd world country ? The last I hear Brazil was building
aeroplanes, has it's own space and nuclear program and a GNP UK would be
envious of.
Cheers,
AH


What relevance does that have to the current discussion?

Brazil is a country with large trade barriers, which skews the cost of
hardware from the world market considerably. It is also pretty advanced,
technically, and has a local base of electronics manufacturers. That
considerably affects the economic tradeoffs in the use computers,
telecoms, and other technology in Brazil. If something can be
manufactured (or at least pass through final assembly) in Brazil, it
will generally be much cheaper than something imported. That means some
people find the use of locally made intelligent E1 cards is cheaper than
the use of dumb cards from Digium or Sangoma.

Regards,
Steve


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jmesquita at gmail.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Steve,

As we speak I am actually negotiating with one of those companies to
make a mod for their cards. Khomp has a very nice product and they are
exporting to the rest of latin america now.

Thanks,

Mesquita

On Jan 27, 2009, at 12:46 AM, Steve Underwood wrote:

Quote:
Hi Abdul,

Abdul Hakeem wrote:
Quote:
Is Brazil a 3rd world country ? The last I hear Brazil was building
aeroplanes, has it's own space and nuclear program and a GNP UK
would be
envious of.
Cheers,
AH


What relevance does that have to the current discussion?

Brazil is a country with large trade barriers, which skews the cost of
hardware from the world market considerably. It is also pretty
advanced,
technically, and has a local base of electronics manufacturers. That
considerably affects the economic tradeoffs in the use computers,
telecoms, and other technology in Brazil. If something can be
manufactured (or at least pass through final assembly) in Brazil, it
will generally be much cheaper than something imported. That means
some
people find the use of locally made intelligent E1 cards is cheaper
than
the use of dumb cards from Digium or Sangoma.

Regards,
Steve


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steveu at coppice.org
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:13 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Hi Joo,

Joo Mesquita wrote:
Quote:
Steve,

As we speak I am actually negotiating with one of those companies to
make a mod for their cards. Khomp has a very nice product and they are
exporting to the rest of latin america now.


It surprises me someone doesn't assemble Tormenta 2 cards in Brazil.
Various people have done this in China, and shipped a lot of cards. They
have to be a lot cheaper than the Khomp and Digivoice boards. The key
issue with the Tormenta 2 is the lack of on board echo cancellation.
Although OSLEC performs well, 120 channels of EC is a lot to do on the
host CPU. Still, a lot of cards ship without on board EC.

Regards,
Steve


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raul at etellicom.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:36 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Hi João,

Please say hello to Giancarlo at Khomp for me :)

Khomp is the best example in Brazil of what good engineering and fair
commercial prices can do to a country that suffers from high import
taxes. Unfortunately some companies are still inclined to buy imported
products/brands instead of favouring local production. Apart from this
discriminatory issue, I believe that local research and production can
turn the table of trade barriers imposed to development countries.

By the way, are you aware of any companies producing SIP phones in
Brazil ?

Regards,

Raul Fragoso

On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 01:34 -0200, João Mesquita wrote:
Quote:
Steve,

As we speak I am actually negotiating with one of those companies to
make a mod for their cards. Khomp has a very nice product and they are
exporting to the rest of latin america now.

Thanks,

Mesquita

On Jan 27, 2009, at 12:46 AM, Steve Underwood wrote:

Quote:
Hi Abdul,

Abdul Hakeem wrote:
Quote:
Is Brazil a 3rd world country ? The last I hear Brazil was building
aeroplanes, has it's own space and nuclear program and a GNP UK
would be
envious of.
Cheers,
AH


What relevance does that have to the current discussion?

Brazil is a country with large trade barriers, which skews the cost of
hardware from the world market considerably. It is also pretty
advanced,
technically, and has a local base of electronics manufacturers. That
considerably affects the economic tradeoffs in the use computers,
telecoms, and other technology in Brazil. If something can be
manufactured (or at least pass through final assembly) in Brazil, it
will generally be much cheaper than something imported. That means
some
people find the use of locally made intelligent E1 cards is cheaper
than
the use of dumb cards from Digium or Sangoma.

Regards,
Steve


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steveu at coppice.org
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:24 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Raul Fragoso wrote:
Quote:
Hi João,

Please say hello to Giancarlo at Khomp for me :)

Khomp is the best example in Brazil of what good engineering and fair
commercial prices can do to a country that suffers from high import
taxes. Unfortunately some companies are still inclined to buy imported
products/brands instead of favouring local production. Apart from this
discriminatory issue, I believe that local research and production can
turn the table of trade barriers imposed to development countries.

Foreigners face huge tariff barriers trying to sell into Brazil.
Brazilian makers face little difficulty selling into other markets. If
Brazilian makers have any problems in such an environment, I'd be amused
to hear them. :-)

Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Hi Abdul,

Brazil does much more than that but we still on "latim america" and according with 1st world countries, we are
considered "non developed country".
The most funny thing about that: some people still thinks that we (brazillians) lives in the forest with monkeys Smile

Regards,
Rodrigo Telles

Em 26-01-2009 19:30, Abdul Hakeem escreveu:
Quote:
Is Brazil a 3rd world country ? The last I hear Brazil was building
aeroplanes, has it's own space and nuclear program and a GNP UK would be
envious of.
Cheers,
AH

-----Original Message-----
From: freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org
[mailto:freeswitch-users-bounces@lists.freeswitch.org] On Behalf Of Rodrigo
P. Telles
Sent: 26 January 2009 20:07
To: freeswitch-users@lists.freeswitch.org
Subject: Re: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729

Hi Michael,

I'm not sure about this, when we need to use G729 on asterisk for example,
we pay the digium (U$ 10/channel) licenses.
U$ 1.00 dolar = R$ 2.31 (Brazilian Real - local currency).

Att.,

Em 23-01-2009 18:29, Michael Collins escreveu:
Quote:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Rodrigo P. Telles
<telles-listas@devel-it.com.br> wrote:
Quote:
Hi Dave,

Down here in Brazil, the bandwidth costs is very high (around U$
400.00/Mb) so it should be valid only for a "non" third world country.
G729 and G723.1 is almost a law here, if you don't play at least with
G729 your ITSP is out of mark share!
Quote:
Quote:
My 2 cents from a third world country.
What is the patent and licensing situation in Brazil? Those are also
factors. $10/port might be cheap in the US but in Brazil it could be
much more? (I'm asking...) -MC


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raul at etellicom.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:08 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Hi Steve,

My point is more towards the high import taxes here. A foreign company
won't pay as much taxes to export to Brazil as brazilians would pay
import taxes for such goods.
I will give you a simple example: a Snom 320 phone would cost roughly US
$180.00 if bought in the US. Here it would cost at least double the
price, but usually more. We pay almost 100% for importing taxes + GST,
excluding the greedy profit that dealers and resellers usually apply,
but Snom (or their distributors) would pay only a small fraction of that
to export phones to Brazil. The irony is that we don't see where all
this money is spent, as the country still suffers of a huge social and
economical dissimilarity among their people.
On the other hand, our current government seems to be making some
progress to make exporting from Brazil easier, specially for small
companies (international trade is known to be very bureaucratic here).
Anyway, this is turning into a politics discussion thread and I know it
can annoy some people. Just to stay in the subject thread, I also
endorse the support for open codecs rather than paying millions for
G.729 licenses.

Regards,

Raul Fragoso

On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 15:23 +0800, Steve Underwood wrote:
Quote:
Raul Fragoso wrote:
Quote:
Hi João,

Please say hello to Giancarlo at Khomp for me :)

Khomp is the best example in Brazil of what good engineering and fair
commercial prices can do to a country that suffers from high import
taxes. Unfortunately some companies are still inclined to buy imported
products/brands instead of favouring local production. Apart from this
discriminatory issue, I believe that local research and production can
turn the table of trade barriers imposed to development countries.

Foreigners face huge tariff barriers trying to sell into Brazil.
Brazilian makers face little difficulty selling into other markets. If
Brazilian makers have any problems in such an environment, I'd be amused
to hear them. :-)

Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:39 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

If you want Speex support you need to target the chipset manufacturers:

Here is the Texas Insturments chipset that Polycom uses in the IP650
Quote:

CPU is TNETV1050/C55x, rev 2 running at 162MHz with memory at 125MHz.And here are the codecs that Chip supports from TI's datasheet on this chip:http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/bcg/tnetv1050_prod_bulletin.pdf
Codec Options*
G.711 Codec, G.726, G.729AB, G.723.1A, G.722 wideband codec
Speex is not listed, so Polycom can't do Speex.


I should note that even the non-HD Polycom phones have this same chip and are capable of doing G.722 some some config tweaking. Wink


I'm willing to bet that Cisco doesn't make their own DSP chips either. Find out who makes their chips and put pressure on that chip manufacturer to develop chips with Speex support.




On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Gregory Boehnlein <damin@nacs.net (damin@nacs.net)> wrote:
Quote:
> >> You use it on your own risk
Quote:

Also, G.729 is patent encumbered big-time. Instead of lining the
pockets of lawyers and mega-corporations by perpetuating the use of a
crusty old codec we should all twist arms and get our providers,
device makers, etc. to use Speex.


Yeah.. let me know when you get Cisco to add Speex support to IOS! Wink



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:24 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Quote:
Codec Options*
G.711 Codec, G.726, G.729AB, G.723.1A, G.722 wideband codec

Speex is not listed, so Polycom can't do Speex.

I should note that even the non-HD Polycom phones have this same chip
and are capable of doing G.722 some some config tweaking. Wink

Are you saying that you have actually gotten the non-HD versions to do
g.722? Or are you saying that one might be able to do this? If the
former, can you share what you did?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] mod_g729 Reply with quote

Rodrigo P. Telles wrote:
Quote:
Hi Abdul,

Brazil does much more than that but we still on "latim america" and according with 1st world countries, we are
considered "non developed country".
The most funny thing about that: some people still thinks that we (brazillians) lives in the forest with monkeys Smile

so you're saying you don't live in the forest with monkeys? Razz

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