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[Freeswitch-users] FS beats Aculab Prosody S on subjective test on lay users for conference quality


 
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testa at voicetechnolo...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] FS beats Aculab Prosody S on subjective t Reply with quote

Hello freeswitchers!

I thought you're be pleased to know: FS beated Prosody S on subjective test on lay users. 
After 3 users testing the two conferences and reporting far better quality on FS, we decided to make a more rigorous test.
Then we made a blind test by asking 4 lay users to dial two urls for 10 minutes from their x-lite and report the results. These users are non-techie and never heard about FS at all.
The first url was Aculab Prosody S test app, then, a second call to FS on default conf (extension 3000). All users preferred FS. Some users were almost enthusiastic after entering FS conf. Some even started to blame ProsodyS after hearing FS. The average report told 50% more satisfaction on FS. Questions on report were simple ones, with results from 1(worse) to 5(best) :
1-Overall opinion(1-crap; 5-awesome);
2-Delay (1-more delay, 5-no delay at all);
3-Audio quality (1-noisy, choppy, etc; 5-cristal clear);


Machines used:
Prosody S: Windows Vista Business, Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 @ 2.8 GHz, 4Gb de RAM
FreeSwitch: CentOS 5.4, Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz, 1Gb RAM


Congratulations! You made a great product!
--
Fernando Gregianin Testa
Voice Technology Ltda
+55 11 35882166
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msc at freeswitch.org
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:34 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] FS beats Aculab Prosody S on subjective t Reply with quote

This is great news. Before we start sending out commercials that say "4 out of 5 Brazilians prefer FreeSWITCH to Prosody" I would very much like know more about the tests:

What kind of computers were the end users working?
What codecs were being used by the x-lite clients when connecting to FS?
What codecs were being used by the x-lite clients when connecting to Prosody?
Were there any other factors that could possibly have affected the call quality?

The reason I ask all of these is that I would love to put this account into the testimonials page on the wiki and make it available to other techie guys who are trying to make their business cases for using FreeSWITCH (or FOSS in general) to the corporate executives.

Thanks for the great report!
-Michael

On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Fernando Testa <testa@voicetechnology.com.br (testa@voicetechnology.com.br)> wrote:
Quote:
Hello freeswitchers!

I thought you're be pleased to know: FS beated Prosody S on subjective test on lay users. 
After 3 users testing the two conferences and reporting far better quality on FS, we decided to make a more rigorous test.
Then we made a blind test by asking 4 lay users to dial two urls for 10 minutes from their x-lite and report the results. These users are non-techie and never heard about FS at all.
The first url was Aculab Prosody S test app, then, a second call to FS on default conf (extension 3000). All users preferred FS. Some users were almost enthusiastic after entering FS conf. Some even started to blame ProsodyS after hearing FS. The average report told 50% more satisfaction on FS. Questions on report were simple ones, with results from 1(worse) to 5(best) :
1-Overall opinion(1-crap; 5-awesome);
2-Delay (1-more delay, 5-no delay at all);
3-Audio quality (1-noisy, choppy, etc; 5-cristal clear);


Machines used:
Prosody S: Windows Vista Business, Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 @ 2.8 GHz, 4Gb de RAM
FreeSwitch: CentOS 5.4, Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz, 1Gb RAM


Congratulations! You made a great product!
--
Fernando Gregianin Testa
Voice Technology Ltda
+55 11 35882166



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dave at 3c.co.uk
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] FS beats Aculab Prosody S on subjective t Reply with quote

Hi Fernando,

Greetings from Rio..!

It'd be interesting to understand more about these results - roughly
speaking, two conferencing systems using the same codecs, etc., ought to
perform pretty much identically, particularly with just a few callers.

I'd be interested to see a network packet dump of a conference on each
of the machines, if you're able to make one available.

Cheers --

Dave


Quote:
Hello freeswitchers!


I thought you're be pleased to know: FS beated Prosody S on subjective
test on lay users.
After 3 users testing the two conferences and reporting far better
quality on FS, we decided to make a more rigorous test.
Then we made a blind test by asking 4 lay users to dial two urls for
10 minutes from their x-lite and report the results. These users are
non-techie and never heard about FS at all.
The first url was Aculab Prosody S test app, then, a second call to FS
on default conf (extension 3000).
All users preferred FS. Some users were almost enthusiastic after
entering FS conf. Some even started to blame ProsodyS after hearing
FS. The average report told 50% more satisfaction on FS. Questions on
report were simple ones, with results from 1(worse) to 5(best) :
1-Overall opinion(1-crap; 5-awesome);
2-Delay (1-more delay, 5-no delay at all);
3-Audio quality (1-noisy, choppy, etc; 5-cristal clear);


Machines used:
Prosody S: Windows Vista Business, Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 @ 2.8
GHz, 4Gb de RAM
FreeSwitch: CentOS 5.4, Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz, 1Gb RAM


Congratulations! You made a great product!
--
Fernando Gregianin Testa
Voice Technology Ltda
+55 11 35882166


_______________________________________________
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list
FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org
http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users
http://www.freeswitch.org
--
David Knell, Director, 3C Limited
T: +44 20 3298 2000
E: dave@3c.co.uk
W: http://www.3c.co.uk


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steveu at coppice.org
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] FS beats Aculab Prosody S on subjective t Reply with quote

David Knell wrote:
Quote:
Hi Fernando,

Greetings from Rio..!

It'd be interesting to understand more about these results - roughly
speaking, two conferencing systems using the same codecs, etc., ought to
perform pretty much identically, particularly with just a few callers.

I'd be interested to see a network packet dump of a conference on each
of the machines, if you're able to make one available.

High quality conferencing is a difficult task, and still a research
topic. No two conferencing systems perform alike. The interesting thing
about this and other reports is that the conferencing in Freeswitch is
not very clever right now, yet people are already saying it beats
various other offerings, including long time commercial offerings.

Steve


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http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
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dave at 3c.co.uk
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] FS beats Aculab Prosody S on subjective t Reply with quote

On Thu, 2009-07-30 at 09:21 +0800, Steve Underwood wrote:
Quote:

High quality conferencing is a difficult task, and still a research
topic. No two conferencing systems perform alike. The interesting thing
about this and other reports is that the conferencing in Freeswitch is
not very clever right now, yet people are already saying it beats
various other offerings, including long time commercial offerings.

It may well be that a simplistic implementation (noise gate, add them
all up) is all that's required for dealing with small groups or, more
generally, groups of any size which have a small number of active
speakers at any one time: it's predictable and unlikely to introduce
unpleasant side effects.

--Dave


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steveu at coppice.org
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] FS beats Aculab Prosody S on subjective t Reply with quote

David Knell wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 2009-07-30 at 09:21 +0800, Steve Underwood wrote:

Quote:

High quality conferencing is a difficult task, and still a research
topic. No two conferencing systems perform alike. The interesting thing
about this and other reports is that the conferencing in Freeswitch is
not very clever right now, yet people are already saying it beats
various other offerings, including long time commercial offerings.


It may well be that a simplistic implementation (noise gate, add them
all up) is all that's required for dealing with small groups or, more
generally, groups of any size which have a small number of active
speakers at any one time: it's predictable and unlikely to introduce
unpleasant side effects.

This is one of those situations where when you've experienced something
better you make that your baseline for acceptability. I would consider a
noise gate horribly crude, and VAD as the minimum for acceptable
performance. If you've only used a noise gate you get used to it. If
you're not sufficiently versed in the art you may well think nothing
better is even possible.

The fact that even the simple scheme, with noise gating, in Freeswitch
is getting high praise, is pretty damning of mature commercial products.

Steve


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http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
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testa at voicetechnolo...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:25 pm    Post subject: [Freeswitch-users] FS beats Aculab Prosody S on subjective t Reply with quote

Hi, a bit late on answering some of the questions, but, here we go.On Aculab, all codecs were G711u. The same codec we have on FS:


freeswitch@conference> show channels
API CALL [show(channels)] output:
uuid,direction,created,created_epoch,name,state,cid_name,cid_num,ip_addr,dest,application,application_data,dialplan,context,read_codec,read_rate,write_codec,write_rate,secure
c9cafeb8-803a-11de-8ceb-cb8648fd1ccf,inbound,2009-08-03 11:34:44,1249310084,sofia/internal/1000@192.168.0.40 (1000@192.168.0.40),CS_EXECUTE,Teste Testa,1000,192.168.0.165,3200,conference,3200-192.168.0.40@ultrawideband,XML,default,L16,8000,PCMU,8000,
cc5edb90-803a-11de-8ceb-cb8648fd1ccf,inbound,2009-08-03 11:34:49,1249310089,sofia/internal/1000@192.168.0.40 (1000@192.168.0.40),CS_EXECUTE,F.G.Testa,1000,192.168.0.249,3200,conference,3200-192.168.0.40@ultrawideband,XML,default,L16,8000,PCMU,8000,


2 total.


freeswitch@conference> conference list
API CALL [conference(list)] output:
Conference 3200-192.168.0.40 (2 members)
2;sofia/internal/1000@192.168.0.40 (1000@192.168.0.40);cc5edb90-803a-11de-8ceb-cb8648fd1ccf;F.G.Testa;1000;hear|speak;0;0;300
1;sofia/internal/1000@192.168.0.40 (1000@192.168.0.40);c9cafeb8-803a-11de-8ceb-cb8648fd1ccf;Teste Testa;1000;hear|speak|talking|floor;0;0;300


I think this answers some questions from Michael.
A packet dump I don't have right now. 


Fernando G. Testa



On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Steve Underwood <steveu@coppice.org (steveu@coppice.org)> wrote:
Quote:
David Knell wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 2009-07-30 at 09:21 +0800, Steve Underwood wrote:

Quote:

High quality conferencing is a difficult task, and still a research
topic. No two conferencing systems perform alike. The interesting thing
about this and other reports is that the conferencing in Freeswitch is
not very clever right now, yet people are already saying it beats
various other offerings, including long time commercial offerings.


It may well be that a simplistic implementation (noise gate, add them
all up) is all that's required for dealing with small groups or, more
generally, groups of any size which have a small number of active
speakers at any one time: it's predictable and unlikely to introduce
unpleasant side effects.


This is one of those situations where when you've experienced something
better you make that your baseline for acceptability. I would consider a
noise gate horribly crude, and VAD as the minimum for acceptable
performance. If you've only used a noise gate you get used to it. If
you're not sufficiently versed in the art you may well think nothing
better is even possible.

The fact that even the simple scheme, with noise gating, in Freeswitch
is getting high praise, is pretty damning of mature commercial products.

Steve



_______________________________________________
FreeSWITCH-users mailing list
FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org (FreeSWITCH-users@lists.freeswitch.org)
http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/listinfo/freeswitch-users
UNSUBSCRIBE:http://lists.freeswitch.org/mailman/options/freeswitch-users
http://www.freeswitch.org





--
Fernando Gregianin Testa
Voice Technology Ltda
+55 11 35882166
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