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nt_jnewman at yahoo.com
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lathama at lathama.com
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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I would advise against it right now and contact the artist. The RIAA
or the (forgot the name, they charge restaurants and stores for
playing music over the PA) would assume that if it is popular one of
their members owns it.
Other than that I would also assume your primary audience must share
your musical taste.
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Justin Newman <nt_jnewman at yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Is the new NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for MOH?
Justin
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/*
Andrew Latham
LATHAMA (lay-th-ham-eh)
lathama at lathama.com
lathama at gmail.com
TuxTone Inc.
http://www.TuxTone.com
*/ |
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tzafrir.cohen at xorco...
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 09:10:30AM -0800, Justin Newman wrote:
| Quote: | Is the new NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for MOH?
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Did you read the license?
http://ghosts.nin.com/main/faq
Ghosts I-IV is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution
Non-Commercial Share Alike license.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/
Right, that's *non-commercial*. So maybe you can use it in an
installation for which you don't charge money for (but TINALAYYY
(This Is Not A Legal Advice, Yada, Yada, Yada)).
For other options, http://search.creativecommons.org/ , and mark the
checkbox labled "Search for works I can use for commercial purposes."
--
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com iax:guest at local.xorcom.com/tzafrir |
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jkinard at closeup.org
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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That'd be ASCAP (I think there's another one too). They're the ones known for calling up places, asking to be put on hold to listen to the hold music, then querying on whether it's been licensed or not (among other tactics).
Pretty much, unless it's music developed in-house, I wouldn't put it on the hold line unless you're willing to risk a fight with them (and even then, they're likely to make a fuss just for the heck of it).
I also suppose this is why Novell support calls are $650 per-incident -- because of the large variety of hold music you'll hear on their "support radio". Groups like Metallica, Smashmouth, etc.., even a live DJ. That all adds up....
--J
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com]On Behalf Of Andrew
Latham
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:36 PM
To: Justin Newman; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial
Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for
MOH?
I would advise against it right now and contact the artist. The RIAA
or the (forgot the name, they charge restaurants and stores for
playing music over the PA) would assume that if it is popular one of
their members owns it.
Other than that I would also assume your primary audience must share
your musical taste.
On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Justin Newman <nt_jnewman at yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Is the new NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for MOH?
Justin
________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
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--
/*
Andrew Latham
LATHAMA (lay-th-ham-eh)
lathama at lathama.com
lathama at gmail.com
TuxTone Inc.
http://www.TuxTone.com
*/
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tilghman at mail.jeffa...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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On Wednesday 05 March 2008 12:05:40 Joshua Kinard wrote:
| Quote: | That'd be ASCAP (I think there's another one too). They're the ones known
for calling up places, asking to be put on hold to listen to the hold
music, then querying on whether it's been licensed or not (among other
tactics).
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BMI (Broadcast Music International) and ASCAP (American Society of Composers,
Authors, and Publishers) are the two major licensing houses in this country.
There are others, but these are the two 800-lb gorillas in the industry.
| Quote: | Pretty much, unless it's music developed in-house, I wouldn't put it on the
hold line unless you're willing to risk a fight with them (and even then,
they're likely to make a fuss just for the heck of it).
|
The default hold music is licensed from another publishing house, Free Play
Music. I know the default music tends to sound crappy, but that's entirely
due to it being compressed down to single channel 8000Hz audio. If you listen
to it in the full, native format, it sounds pretty good.
Free Play Music will license 10 of their works for music on hold for $125 per
year. If you really want another style, I'd invite you to take a look at
their website. ALL of their works, in the entirety, are available online at
their website, and not just a preview of each work, the whole thing.
http://www.freeplaymusic.com/
The three works distributed with Asterisk:
http://www.freeplaymusic.com/search/download_file.php?id=303&dur=0&type=mp3
http://www.freeplaymusic.com/search/download_file.php?id=22&dur=0&type=mp3
http://www.freeplaymusic.com/search/download_file.php?id=313&dur=0&type=mp3
--
Tilghman |
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tzafrir.cohen at xorco...
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 09:12:52PM -0600, Tilghman Lesher wrote:
| Quote: | On Wednesday 05 March 2008 12:05:40 Joshua Kinard wrote:
| Quote: | That'd be ASCAP (I think there's another one too). They're the ones known
for calling up places, asking to be put on hold to listen to the hold
music, then querying on whether it's been licensed or not (among other
tactics).
|
BMI (Broadcast Music International) and ASCAP (American Society of Composers,
Authors, and Publishers) are the two major licensing houses in this country.
There are others, but these are the two 800-lb gorillas in the industry.
| Quote: | Pretty much, unless it's music developed in-house, I wouldn't put it on the
hold line unless you're willing to risk a fight with them (and even then,
they're likely to make a fuss just for the heck of it).
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Just to clarify one thing here - if you got a sound file with a license
that is liberal enough, you *can* use it for on-hold music. This is
stated clearly in the license.
First-off, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just saying here things that make sense
to me. Consult a lawyer of your own in case of doubt.
It seems that on-hold music is considered as a sort of public
performance. So if I can use some music in my public, commercial, shows.
If the license permits me to do "anything execept", and no exceptions
for public performances or alike, then the lices permits me to use it.
Such a license can be GPL or BSD or MIT. For various reasons
those licenses are not so often used for music. But if you want to,
e.g., use music from the game The Battle of Wesnoth as your music, feel
free:
http://packages.debian.org/sid/wesnoth-music
http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/w/wesnoth/wesnoth_1.4-1/wesnoth-music.copyright
Creative Commons did a good job at simplifying the licenses. The only
confusion is to consider all the CC licenses as one. There are a number
of CC licenses and they clearly differ by the name. If the license if
"nc" you cannot use the work for commercial uses.
Various Creative Commons licenses explicitly address the right to public
performance (explicitly grant it).
Something I can't see how to satisfy in a simple IVR system is the
requirement for attribution. If you call into an IVR, and playing the
work is considered a public performance, you still have no idea who's it
was originally.
One way to provide it is an "about this system" IVR menu item 
--
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com iax:guest at local.xorcom.com/tzafrir |
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jra at baylink.com
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 09:12:52PM -0600, Tilghman Lesher wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | Pretty much, unless it's music developed in-house, I wouldn't put it on the
hold line unless you're willing to risk a fight with them (and even then,
they're likely to make a fuss just for the heck of it).
|
The default hold music is licensed from another publishing house, Free Play
Music. I know the default music tends to sound crappy, but that's entirely
due to it being compressed down to single channel 8000Hz audio. If you listen
to it in the full, native format, it sounds pretty good.
Free Play Music will license 10 of their works for music on hold for $125 per
year. If you really want another style, I'd invite you to take a look at
their website. ALL of their works, in the entirety, are available online at
their website, and not just a preview of each work, the whole thing.
http://www.freeplaymusic.com/
The three works distributed with Asterisk:
http://www.freeplaymusic.com/search/download_file.php?id=303&dur=0&type=mp3
http://www.freeplaymusic.com/search/download_file.php?id=22&dur=0&type=mp3
http://www.freeplaymusic.com/search/download_file.php?id=313&dur=0&type=mp3
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But, just to clarify, please remember that using music as MoH is
considered a "public performance", and if the pieces in question do not
include a buyout license *for the performance rights* (not just
synchronization rights for the recordings, as many "buyout production
libraries" do, then you *still* have to have ASCAP or BMI licensing to
use them.
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin) |
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jfaubion at tx.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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| Quote: | But, just to clarify, please remember that using music as MoH
is considered a "public performance", and if the pieces in
question do not include a buyout license *for the performance
|
Ok now I am curious, if a radio is playing in a store, a restaurant or at
the beach, wouldn't that be considered a public performance? And even though
the radio station has already paid the license fee, does this mean that the
person who owns the radio is also subject to these fees? I know of several
key systems with FM radio cards providing MoH and I've often wondered about
the ramifications of that setup and the music industry.
John Faubion |
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dcotton at linuxautrem...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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John Faubion wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | But, just to clarify, please remember that using music as MoH
is considered a "public performance", and if the pieces in
question do not include a buyout license *for the performance
|
Ok now I am curious, if a radio is playing in a store, a restaurant or at
the beach, wouldn't that be considered a public performance? And even though
the radio station has already paid the license fee, does this mean that the
person who owns the radio is also subject to these fees?
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From a conversation with a hairdresser who fell foul of this the answer
is in France you do have to pay.
Dave Cotton |
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sakodak at gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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On the subject of hold music, I've been using stuff from stock20.com.
They've got a good selection and they only charge $7 per song, and you
can do anything you like with it. I did my own voiceovers (I built a
very bad "isolation booth" in my basement using blankets and wood
clamps. I wish I was making that up) and saved a bunch of money over
what some companies charge for that sort of thing. |
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g.stewart at horwits.c...
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:17:16 +0100, Dave Cotton
<dcotton at linuxautrement.com> wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | Ok now I am curious, if a radio is playing in a store, a restaurant or
at the beach, wouldn't that be considered a public performance?
|
From a conversation with a hairdresser who fell foul of this the answer
is in France you do have to pay.
|
Confirmed.
I lived there from 1983 until a few months ago and I know for a fact that
bars have to have special TV licenses in order to show, for example, soccer
matches and other sporting events, and a radio license in order to
broadcast the radio to clients, many of whom are too p*ssed to realize what
they're listening to or watching anyway
--
Godwin Stewart - Horwich IT services |
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anselm at hoffmeister-...
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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Am Montag, den 10.03.2008, 02:59 -0500 schrieb John Faubion:
| Quote: | | Quote: | But, just to clarify, please remember that using music as MoH
is considered a "public performance", and if the pieces in
question do not include a buyout license *for the performance
|
Ok now I am curious, if a radio is playing in a store, a restaurant or at
the beach, wouldn't that be considered a public performance? And even though
the radio station has already paid the license fee, does this mean that the
person who owns the radio is also subject to these fees? I know of several
key systems with FM radio cards providing MoH and I've often wondered about
the ramifications of that setup and the music industry.
|
Good morning,
the legal situation probably differs between countries. In Germany, you
are required to register with the GEMA if you intend to play music in
public if the artist is a GEMA customer. If you _only_ play free music,
the law does not require you to register afaik, but in doubt you will
have to prove that you did not play GEMA music (which is ridiculous when
you think about it, but you do not want to fight against that machine).
A party where two guests do not know each other's names may be
considered public, even if only ten or twenty people are there. A class
room, a barber shop, a supermarket or having a barbecue on the beach are
surely public. The fees due will be calculated in regard to the area
where the event takes place, because that limits the _maximum_ audience.
Ain't it nice. (No idea though how exactly the area for music on hold is
calculated - have a look at their tariffs jungle at
http://www.gema.de/musiknutzer/abspielen-auffuehren/tarife-im-ueberblick/ ).
I am not a lawyer, and am still lucky to not have to do with those music
industry guys (and who is the "pirate" here...).
BR
Anselm |
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spamsucks2005 at gmail...
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:23 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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AFAIK (as a member of SACEM and BMI), anyone who uses music in any
commercial context like a store open to the public must pay royalties
on it *if* the music is registered via ASCAP, BMI, SACEM or some other
rights collection organization. This is usually done on a yearly
basis. Those that use "storecast" subcarrier feeds
(does that even still exist?) have the royalties included.
You might find some music of use here:
http://mediaminutes.net/music/music.rss
One or two may be suitable for moh. I know you can use them for
anything you like.
/r |
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novackster at gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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Horwich IT Services (Godwin Stewart) wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:17:16 +0100, Dave Cotton
<dcotton at linuxautrement.com> wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | Ok now I am curious, if a radio is playing in a store, a restaurant or at the beach, wouldn't that be considered a public performance?
|
From a conversation with a hairdresser who fell foul of this the answer is in France you do have to pay.
|
Confirmed.
I lived there from 1983 until a few months ago and I know for a fact that bars have to have special TV licenses in order to show, for example, soccer matches and other sporting events, and a radio license in order to broadcast the radio to clients, many of whom are too p*ssed to realize what they're listening to or watching anyway
|
Certainly the case in the US as well. ASCAP goes on regular campaigns
with Pizza shops and the like. Look for the yellow sign on the door.
So far they haven't bothered medical offices too much, and I do not know
about XM radio sold for commercial use. I suspect that MAY be covered.
Bottom line is if you write it your self, and play it your self, in the
US you probably will be OK. Other than that, you have exposure, or you
AND your client .
John Novack
--
Dog is my co-pilot |
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tzafrir.cohen at xorco...
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] NIN Ghosts music (free download) safe for M |
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Hi,
I sense a confusion here between two things,
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 11:25:22AM -0400, John Novack wrote:
| Quote: |
Horwich IT Services (Godwin Stewart) wrote:
|
| Quote: | | Quote: | I lived there from 1983 until a few months ago and I know for a fact
that bars have to have special TV licenses in order to show, for
example, soccer matches and other sporting events, and a radio
license in order to broadcast the radio to clients, many of whom
are too p*ssed to realize what they're listening to or watching anyway
|
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We all seem to feel that this "is just not right". But what is the issue
here specifically? The issue is the limits of fair use. I can read a
book whereever I want. I can put a record on loud speakers at my house
The neighbourghrs might complain, but not the record companies.
Public performance has been given a different status and is
goverened by somehwat different rules. E.g. for the case of the barber
playing a radio in his shop you can say that he uses the music for
commercial purpose, and OTOH, the owners of the radio station have
already paid for this, so why pay twice, etc. etc. .
Well, this might be an interesting topic for rants. But I believe that
the legal opnions are generally quite clear on that playing on-hold
music to entartiain the folks waiting on your line is a sort of public
performance. You cannot get off the hook with any "fair use" clause.
| Quote: | Certainly the case in the US as well. ASCAP goes on regular campaigns
with Pizza shops and the like. Look for the yellow sign on the door.
So far they haven't bothered medical offices too much, and I do not know
about XM radio sold for commercial use. I suspect that MAY be covered.
Bottom line is if you write it your self, and play it your self, in the
US you probably will be OK. Other than that, you have exposure, or you
AND your client .
|
You can look at them as being extortionists. You can just pay them and
make them go away. Well, if that were the case, other alternatives were
not possible. FreePlay Music was mentioned up this thread.
Just as much as some prompts sets available for Asterisk are perfectly
legal for usage in this sort of "public performance" (IVR system), sound
files released under a permissive enough license allow it.
But you have goons^Wlawyers to answer to. So you have to keep yourself
covered: make sure you don't just pick a sound file from somewhere in
the internet. Make sure you can track it to its copyrights holder and
that it is accompanied by a clear license.
And on the flip side: if you release your works, please put a clear
license next to it, or at least a reference to one. It is frustrating to
see some useful stuff on the internet that you their author would love
other to use. But you just can't be sure of that, because there's not a
word about the license.
--
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com iax:guest at local.xorcom.com/tzafrir |
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