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nigel.dennis at sympat...
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 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] CLEC formation was Re: MagicJack |
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Beware of this one: Google eric brown clec
| Quote: | From: Trixter aka Bret McDanel <trixter@0xdecafbad.com>
Reply-To: trixter@0xdecafbad.com,Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: [asterisk-biz] CLEC formation was Re: MagicJack
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:23:56 +0100
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 08:00 -0500, Mike Hammett wrote:
| Quote: | Tell them I sent you.
http://www.lokt.net/
| Quote: | On Friday 21 March 2008 12:29:38 pm Nitzan Kon wrote:
So how does one get CLEC status? Say, in only one state? Just
curious....
<evil grin>
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I dont have experience with this firm, but I do agree with its
sentiment, that its generally better to hire lawyers and/or consultants
to help people along given that there is a TON of filings that generally
have to be done, and they have to be done right. The law firm should
specialize in telecom law, just as you want a heart surgeon to
specialize in hearts, and wouldnt have a angioplasty performed by a
podiatrist.
Just knowing what filings have to be filed is important, and they have
to be filed in a specific order, do them out of order and you may have
to start over on some things, miss one and it can cost you months of
trying to refile stuff. The process on a good day takes 6-9 months on a
bad day well over 24 months. With many of the things you have to submit
them for approval (tariffs for example, some states even the
interconnection agreements have to be approved). There are shortcuts
and a good consultant or lawyer will know them and use them to your
advantage (such as basically taking already approved tariffs from
someone else and replacing their name with yours, speeds the approval
process).
Then once you have your CLEC status you have to continue to file stuff,
pay taxes and fees, etc. And each state has its own regulations (50
states, DC is a territory, as are a few other territories not
considered US generally, puerto rico, guam, US virgin islands, etc). If
you traffic minutes across LATAs you have to get IXC status which has
its own regulations, taxes and fees. All of these things are generally
exempt from VoIP providers (although the line is blurring with the
"interconnected VoIP provider" rules).
In addition to the state you have to file federally too, so even one
state has at least 2 governments that you have to file with. To do
CONUS (US48 + DC) you have 50 governments to file with, taxes are
different per state, and CLECs are generally exempt from all subsidies
as well (ie NECA), but they have to pay to the fund.
Its a regulatory quagmire. I personally dont recommend it unless its a
real business need, and compensation generally isnt a good enough need
because almost all CLECs see almost no compensation per minute. The FCC
cap on intercarrier compensation is generally 0.0007/min iirc, with some
special exceptions that are almost impossible for a CLEC to fit into.
Of course with anything there are alternatives and sometimes it takes
someone who has been down that road and discovered some of them to show
all the short cuts that are available. There is power in this
information, a point not lost on consulting firms that specialize in
clec formation. That is why many CLEC consultants charge no less than
$50k to share their knowledge.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!
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trixter at 0xdecafbad.com
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nigel.dennis at sympat...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] CLEC formation was Re: MagicJack |
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Google: eric brown clec click on ADT letter or Clec report and see some of
the things going on with individuals in the business.
| Quote: | From: Trixter aka Bret McDanel <trixter@0xdecafbad.com>
Reply-To: trixter@0xdecafbad.com,Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] CLEC formation was Re: MagicJack
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:25:24 +0100
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 15:35 +0000, nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca wrote:
| Quote: | Beware of this one: Google eric brown clec
|
Why beware? The name seems somewhat familiar I just cant place it.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
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cmazer at thinkingphon...
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nigel.dennis at sympat...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: [asterisk-biz] CLEC formation was Re: MagicJack |
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when you google the key words you should see it about the second 1 down
| Quote: | From: "Cliff Mazer" <cmazer@thinkingphones.com>
Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion"<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] CLEC formation was Re: MagicJack
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:47:14 -0700
Where do I find the ADT letter or the Clec report?
-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-biz-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of
nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:35 PM
To: asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] CLEC formation was Re: MagicJack
Google: eric brown clec click on ADT letter or Clec report and see
some of
the things going on with individuals in the business.
| Quote: | From: Trixter aka Bret McDanel <trixter@0xdecafbad.com>
Reply-To: trixter@0xdecafbad.com,Commercial and Business-Oriented
|
Asterisk
| Quote: | Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk
Discussion<asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] CLEC formation was Re: MagicJack
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:25:24 +0100
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 15:35 +0000, nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca wrote:
| Quote: | Beware of this one: Google eric brown clec
|
Why beware? The name seems somewhat familiar I just cant place it.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
|
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
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_______________________________________________
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eric.fort at gmail.com
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trixter at 0xdecafbad.com
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: [asterisk-biz] CLEC formation was Re: MagicJack |
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On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 16:35 +0000, nigel.dennis@sympatico.ca wrote:
| Quote: | Google: eric brown clec click on ADT letter or Clec report and see some of
the things going on with individuals in the business.
|
It was ADT that I had heard of and some plan he had, which seemed to
rely upon carriers less than robust billing systems for flat rate
tollfree service that I had seen in the past. Basically what he was
advertising was a very cheap flat rate almost unlimited channel tollfree
line, based around the fact that many CLECs do not bill for certain
charges they could. So in each of the 209 LATAs you arrange to have a
CLEC there be responsible for the tollfree, which gives you effectively
a free one.
The whole thing seemed dodgy to me, why I never did it, because they
dont bill today but nothing stops them from billing tomorrow and you
could have built a business on that and end up paying a ton in unplanned
expenses for calls.
If a carrier does not want to bill for certain things that is their
choice, and I have no problem using their service, even if its at a loss
to that carrier. Companies often sell products below cost as a loss
leader. In my past I did not have a problem buying mp3 players below
cost and selling them on ebay, I see the two as the same. Phone minutes
are a commodity the same as real products, other than for a carrier its
use it or lose it, unused capacity is in essence wasted and to recapture
some of that by wholesaling minutes below cost, still provides income to
the company. A loss of $500 is not as bad as a loss of $1000 ...
Its when you dont have a contracted price that causes problems for me
because of the potential for a surprise bill that would mean filing
bankruptcy if it happened in many places at the same time.
Yes its not difficult to either be a resporg or hire a 3rd party resporg
and insert routing data that would make calls go over a carrier they
ordinarily wouldnt go over, and that carrier may not know that its
tollfree traffic so they may not bill for it. I do not know if Eric
Brown/ADT did this without the knowledge of the carriers, or if the
tollfree traffic was agreed upon, I never got far enough in the
discussions to tell.
I do know for example that XO years ago had a problem where they couldnt
tell it was a tollfree if you use a 3rd party resporg and route it to
one of their DIDs. They would then bill you as if its a normal inbound
phone call. This demonstrates that its not only small carriers that may
have this weakness. However to take advantage of this is a gamble, as
they may detect it and back bill for the traffic or it may be illegal (I
can see a fairly well formed argument for toll fraud in this situation
since you are avoiding fees you would otherwise have to pay, which is
the tariff definition of toll fraud in most tariffs, and generally in
the law).
It seems however that ADT had other issues as well based on what I read.
And while I did not click on every link, this particular sales item did
not seem to be mentioned, although it was advertised on this list a few
years ago.
--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200
http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you!
_______________________________________________
--Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com--
asterisk-biz mailing list
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz |
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