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lists at minotaur.cc
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

Greetings list, I've been asked to provide a system for 200 extensions, most of which will be existing analogue POTS handsets, not IP handsets. I've not really had any experience with large channel banks in the past (since most of our deployments are strictly IP-only to the desk), so I'm at a loss as to which ones are worth looking at. If anyone's had experience using channel banks on reasonably sizeable installs I'd be interested to hear what device(s) you used, how simple or complex they were to configure, and whether there'd be any issues attaching multiple units to a single server. This install would be in the UK, so we do need to factor in the different conditions expected by UK POTS handsets (line impedance, etc.). Are most channel banks country-neutral, or do specific models need to be purchased for different line conditions in each country? Thanks in advance. Regards, Chris -- C.M. Bagnall, Director, Minotaur I.T. Limited For full contact details visit http://www.minotaur.it This email is made from 100% recycled electrons

drew at oanda.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

Chris Bagnall wrote:

Quote:

Greetings list,

I've been asked to provide a system for 200 extensions, most of which will be existing analogue POTS handsets, not IP handsets. I've not really had any experience with large channel banks in the past (since most of our deployments are strictly IP-only to the desk), so I'm at a loss as to which ones are worth looking at.

If anyone's had experience using channel banks on reasonably sizeable installs I'd be interested to hear what device(s) you used, how simple or complex they were to configure, and whether there'd be any issues attaching multiple units to a single server.

This install would be in the UK, so we do need to factor in the different conditions expected by UK POTS handsets (line impedance, etc.). Are most channel banks country-neutral, or do specific models need to be purchased for different line conditions in each country?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Chris

www.citel.com

I used them a few years back in a pilot install with legacy Nortel
phones and it worked well. I gather they have grown tremendously from
there. I'm in North America, don't know how well they support UK stuff.

regards,

Drew

--
Drew Gibson

Systems Administrator
OANDA Corporation
www.oanda.com

jra at baylink.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Thu, Mar 06, 2008 at 03:21:47PM -0000, Chris Bagnall wrote:

Quote:

I've been asked to provide a system for 200 extensions, most of which
will be existing analogue POTS handsets, not IP handsets. I've not
really had any experience with large channel banks in the past (since
most of our deployments are strictly IP-only to the desk), so I'm at a
loss as to which ones are worth looking at.

If anyone's had experience using channel banks on reasonably sizeable
installs I'd be interested to hear what device(s) you used, how simple
or complex they were to configure, and whether there'd be any issues
attaching multiple units to a single server.

This install would be in the UK, so we do need to factor in the
different conditions expected by UK POTS handsets (line impedance,
etc.). Are most channel banks country-neutral, or do specific models
need to be purchased for different line conditions in each country?

You might want to check the archives from, I think, early '07; I was
looking into doing a hotel/motel system for a client, and asked almost
exactly this question.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

jra at baylink.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Thu, Mar 06, 2008 at 10:38:36AM -0500, Drew Gibson wrote:

Quote:

Citel are, are they not, the company that specializes in "FXS" channel
banks specific to legacy digital phones? Do they do analog-POTS banks
as well?

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

stotaro at totarotechn...
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra at baylink.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Thu, Mar 06, 2008 at 10:38:36AM -0500, Drew Gibson wrote:

Quote:

Citel is the worst product I have ever dealt with, worse than
Grandstream but for different reasons.

Anyways, for smaller port density I love the Quintum Tenor AX 24 port
FXS, They may make a 48, I am not sure. This is a SIP connection,
and there are probably a multitude of other products that do the same,
Quintum blew me away with the sheer amount of options and
configuration (that you will probably never use).

I have heard people suggest MaxTNT for high port densities, which
looks great, I just have no experience or need for such a device yet.

The other option is a channel bank that connects via T1 or I guess E1
(although I have never seen an E1 30 port channel bank, I am in the US
so it is not surprising)

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

I have been told to use Rhino Channel Bank but I am yet to set it up and
I appreciate if someone can show me some doco of using Rhino on an E1/T1
with TE410.

Thanks.

Quote:

I've been asked to provide a system for 200 extensions, most of which

will

Quote:

be existing analogue POTS handsets, not IP handsets. I've not really

had

Quote:

any experience with large channel banks in the past (since most of our
deployments are strictly IP-only to the desk), so I'm at a loss as to
which ones are worth looking at.

jfinstrom at rhinoequi...
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

What kind of information are you looking for? configuration or? If you
look in our manuals our cards and the Digium cards configure the same
in zaptel and zapata.

Lee, John (Sydney) wrote:

Quote:

I have been told to use Rhino Channel Bank but I am yet to set it
up and I appreciate if someone can show me some doco of using Rhino
on an E1/T1 with TE410.

Thanks.

Quote:

I've been asked to provide a system for 200 extensions, most of
which

will

Quote:

be existing analogue POTS handsets, not IP handsets. I've not
really

had

Quote:

any experience with large channel banks in the past (since most
of our deployments are strictly IP-only to the desk), so I'm at a
loss as to which ones are worth looking at.

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All Rhino products are made in America, Come with a Money Back gurantee
and have a 5 Year warranty. Quality and Toughness built in!!
Phone: 1-800-785-7073 ~ FAX: +1 (480) 961-1826
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gordon+asterisk at dro...
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

Quote:

I know I've missed the original message in this thread, so it'll be a bit
out of place, but what about the Xorcom Channel banks?

e.g.:

http://www.voipon.co.uk/xorcom-astribank32-32-fxs-channel-bank-p-530.html

Trouble is, you'll need 7 32-port units to cover your needs and I'm not
sure if USB2 is up to driving that many ... Tzafrir?

However, even with E1 units, you're still looking at 7 E1 ports... (2 quad
cards + the external channel bank)

Gordon

tzafrir.cohen at xorco...
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Thu, Mar 06, 2008 at 11:50:43PM +0000, Gordon Henderson wrote:

Quote:

One USB connector can take a number close to that easily. But even if
USB were the bottleneck, you would just add another USB controller in the form of
PCI card and get extra bandwidth.

--
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com iax:guest at local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

jra at baylink.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 02:14:57AM +0200, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

Quote:

http://www.voipon.co.uk/xorcom-astribank32-32-fxs-channel-bank-p-530.html

Trouble is, you'll need 7 32-port units to cover your needs and I'm not
sure if USB2 is up to driving that many ... Tzafrir?

One USB connector can take a number close to that easily. But even if
USB were the bottleneck, you would just add another USB controller in
the form of PCI card and get extra bandwidth.

Is there any reason you'd want to do that on a system of that scale
instead of just using Ethernetted FXS boxes on a dedicated 100Base?

Even if you didn't want to use reinvite, seems you'd still win just
from the less expensive host interface (I can't understand people using
T-1 interfaces for FXS channels either, honestly, in the current
environment).

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

Those who cast the vote decide nothing.
Those who count the vote decide everything.
-- (Joseph Stalin)

stotaro at totarotechn...
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra at baylink.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 02:14:57AM +0200, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

Quote:

http://www.voipon.co.uk/xorcom-astribank32-32-fxs-channel-bank-p-530.html

Trouble is, you'll need 7 32-port units to cover your needs and I'm not
sure if USB2 is up to driving that many ... Tzafrir?

One USB connector can take a number close to that easily. But even if
USB were the bottleneck, you would just add another USB controller in
the form of PCI card and get extra bandwidth.

http://www.quintum.com/enterprise/en_productdetail.html?id=19

48 Port, you cannot go wrong although, you are going to pay a bit,
well worth it. Besides, breaking it down per port makes it a little
more palatable.

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

stotaro at totarotechn...
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Steve Totaro
<stotaro at totarotechnologies.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Jay R. Ashworth <jra at baylink.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 02:14:57AM +0200, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

Quote:

http://www.voipon.co.uk/xorcom-astribank32-32-fxs-channel-bank-p-530.html

Trouble is, you'll need 7 32-port units to cover your needs and I'm not
sure if USB2 is up to driving that many ... Tzafrir?

One USB connector can take a number close to that easily. But even if
USB were the bottleneck, you would just add another USB controller in
the form of PCI card and get extra bandwidth.

Sorry, wrong link.

http://www.quintum.com/enterprise/en_productdetail.html?id=21

tzafrir.cohen at xorco...
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 03:00:03PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:

Quote:

On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 02:14:57AM +0200, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

Quote:

http://www.voipon.co.uk/xorcom-astribank32-32-fxs-channel-bank-p-530.html

Trouble is, you'll need 7 32-port units to cover your needs and I'm not
sure if USB2 is up to driving that many ... Tzafrir?

One USB connector can take a number close to that easily. But even if
USB were the bottleneck, you would just add another USB controller in
the form of PCI card and get extra bandwidth.

USB is very cheap. It's in every computer. A dedicated ethernet segment
costs more to set up that an extra USB segment (a 10$ for an extra USB
controller? 20$ for a USB hub? a bit more for the wiring?).

TDMoE is more complicated as the latency is higher and the jitter is
larger.
Now both thing have been (T1 channel banks, and TDMoE) have been done by
others. People do use and buy them. I don't intend to say that they
don't. But ours does as well Smile

--
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com iax:guest at local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

stotaro at totarotechn...
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 8:02 PM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 03:00:03PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:

Quote:

On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 02:14:57AM +0200, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

Quote:

http://www.voipon.co.uk/xorcom-astribank32-32-fxs-channel-bank-p-530.html

Trouble is, you'll need 7 32-port units to cover your needs and I'm not
sure if USB2 is up to driving that many ... Tzafrir?

One USB connector can take a number close to that easily. But even if
USB were the bottleneck, you would just add another USB controller in
the form of PCI card and get extra bandwidth.

USB is very cheap. It's in every computer. A dedicated ethernet segment
costs more to set up that an extra USB segment (a 10$ for an extra USB
controller? 20$ for a USB hub? a bit more for the wiring?).

TDMoE is more complicated as the latency is higher and the jitter is
larger.

Now both thing have been (T1 channel banks, and TDMoE) have been done by
others. People do use and buy them. I don't intend to say that they
don't. But ours does as well Smile

--
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com iax:guest at local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

Ethernet/SIP is going to be by far the most flexible.

You can have much longer cable runs without some kind of USB repeater
device. Switches are cheap, CAT5/6 is cheap.

You could put a Quintum Tenor AX 48 Port (for instance) in one section
of a building, campus, LAN (WAN if you are daring) and the server
could be anywhere, not tied by 15 or 30 foot USB cables. Then if you
are doing new wiring, you can run the shortest distance from the
location of the SIP FXS device to the phones.

You can have redundant, self healing links as well as link aggregation.

I cannot see how TDMoE or USB come anywhere close to this flexibility
and certainly don't see it being a fit for high port densities like
discussed.

I see TDM0E as something that a tech guy thought would be cool (and it
is but not very practical) and a USB device something suited for the
SoHo (but missing the scalability, redundancy, and flexibility that IP
gives.)

Thanks,
Steve Totaro

tzafrir.cohen at xorco...
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: [asterisk-users] FXS channel banks

On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 08:28:14PM -0500, Steve Totaro wrote:

Quote:

Ethernet/SIP is going to be by far the most flexible.

You can have much longer cable runs without some kind of USB repeater
device. Switches are cheap, CAT5/6 is cheap.

Quote:

You could put a Quintum Tenor AX 48 Port (for instance) in one section
of a building, campus, LAN (WAN if you are daring) and the server
could be anywhere, not tied by 15 or 30 foot USB cables. Then if you
are doing new wiring, you can run the shortest distance from the
location of the SIP FXS device to the phones.

Just think of a different alternative: If you consider the cost of a
24/32/48 FXS channel bank, vs. the cost of the PC used to driver it:
just put a simple PC at that end of the campus and attach the Astribank
to it.

Quote:

You can have redundant, self healing links as well as link aggregation.

I cannot see how TDMoE or USB come anywhere close to this flexibility
and certainly don't see it being a fit for high port densities like
discussed.

I see TDM0E as something that a tech guy thought would be cool (and it
is but not very practical) and a USB device something suited for the
SoHo (but missing the scalability, redundancy, and flexibility that IP
gives.)

As for USB: this is also what I thought before actually starting to work
with it. Sure, there are limitations. But the Linux USB stack is a nice
one.

As for TDMoE, I know that at least the current ztd-eth in Zaptel is
considered "broken". Fixing it would be appreciated if you actually want
to use it Smile

--
Tzafrir Cohen
icq#16849755 jabber:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
+972-50-7952406 mailto:tzafrir.cohen at xorcom.com
http://www.xorcom.com iax:guest at local.xorcom.com/tzafrir

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